My opinion

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Well i've said what i posted to say, i know you many of you are convinced this will turn into a debate but there's some of me that has faith it won't...hm...maybe my faith is not well placed...But we'll see how the thread goes anyways :nod: .
If no one has anything more to say i don't mind at all, i will be happy if this thread just makes its way to the bottom of the page and never seen for a long, long time- that way i know that many of you agree with my opinion and it is shared amoungst many of you, and that the majority of us agree on the main issues and do not feel the need to adress them anymore and that the issue has been laid to rest :) .
 
abstract said:
SRC said:
Good call abstract (oops lmao..hope you didn't see that :*) ) :thumbs:
hmm, i didn't :whistle: :unsure:
:lol: I was typing to you and called you someone elses name..and I hoped I got it fixed before you saw it lol. :D mmmyyyy bad lol.
 
Tokis, I do agree with you that buying a poorly fish from a neglected store only helps the store, and I agree that even though this subject has been beaten to death, if it still creeps up, obviously it still must be addressed. There is nothing new under the sun and just because one person has debated the subject and is satisfied, does not mean everyone else has gotten the chance.

I have a couple of rebuttals for you. :)

First, although a store is generally neglectful, it does not mean that the poor condition of their bettas is always their fault. I recently rescued a pair of bettas that had been dumped into the same cup together. This was not the store's fault, as I am sure a customer did that, but I happen to know that the store does not medicate injured fish, so I bought them and took them home. In this case, I do not believe that a scene was warranted, but it was still a 'rescue'.

Also, it is not necessarily true that the store makes the majority of their profit off of the fish. In reality, the majority of any pet store's sales are not from the pets, but from the accompanying equipment required to maintain those pets...especially when it comes to fish.

Now, regarding making a scene. I'll be honest with you, I am not comfortable with confrontation. I am not the only one. There are many people like me that want to help actively, but are not bold enough to make a scene. Therefore, I buy fish that need my help. I suppose that means I am a bad person. Recently, I have tried to be more active in notifying management and making complaints, but I am still hesitant to do so.

I do not think that I am a bad person, though. I think that I am doing the best that I can within the restraints of my personality. I am trying to reach beyond my comfort zone to do what is right, but it is not easy. I do take it somewhat personal, though, that in my efforts, I would technically fall into your definition of a 'bad person' since I have taken these factors into consideration and still choose to buy the fish that needs my help, whether I make a scene or not. I am willing to agree to disagree with you in regard to this matter, but I feel that the matter is not as black and white as your post makes it sound. There are exceptions and extenuating circumstances.

Especially with newbs, to present opinions as fact can really bring a person down, especially in a case where they are only trying to help. I admit that no one should let another person's opinion dictate their actions, but at the same time, no one wants to be thought a bad person for something they were doing to try to help, either.

Because I am not a bold person, I applaud the efforts of people like bettamomma. As often as I am comfortable with, I try to leave them behind, but sometimes, I will just rescue one that really needs my help. You can think of me as a bad person, it will not bother me, but I please ask you to try to give the benefit of the doubt to others who are also trying their best. :)
 
I do not think you are a bad person at all FalconStorm, you save the bettas because you want to save their lives and you pity their sorrowfull state- you have more heart than most people in this world.
I am sure many bettas you have saved that would have died there and then on the shelf are now living full-filling happy lives with you. If you just buy the fish though and quietly leave without an extra action to the issue of no sort thought, you cannot deny that although you have saved the fish's life(and the fish is very grateful for it), another one will end up on the shelf in its place paid for by the money you spent on the betta you previously saved.
If you know the consequences of this action though, perhaps you should review your motives for saving the betta in the first place. I yet again say that you are not a bad person at all, but if you want to do the best you can for bettas and want to be a good part of the fish rights movement, you must go about these actions more efficiently and not counteract your very motives for saving the fish's life in the first place.
If all people did was buy sick bettas and take them home quietly, then the posibility of the cruelty ever ending would only be a slip of a dream, a concept not even in the hands grasp.
 
i think one of the big issues here is how quickly topics get turned around...for instance, someone makes a post about getting a new betta because they are excited (they do not HAVE to post, mind you, but they would like to do so) - within the first couple of posts, it turns from "nice betta" to "what size tank are you keeping him in," "any tankmates, are you using water conditioner, etc" ....and THEN it turns into "are you a complete idiot, you are cruel, a betta needs #)(*&)(#*&#)" in one form or another...

the same can be said about any sub-forum on this board...(and i must admit that i am guilty in some cases - i.e. when someone clearly has an overstocked tank and is looking into what fish to get next - that is my main pet peeve - i won't hesitate to offer my opinion and try to get others to rally along)...but when it comes to newbies who are making mistakes due to their lfs and are making a concious effort to help (and i say concious because they don't end up on a forum looking for help for no reason!), get off their back!

another thing that is becoming more common is a group of individuals attacking a single person for their thoughts on a topic, even when it may be (their) experience vs. word of mouth (you have heard)....if one or two people agree that a tank is overstocked or someone gave bad advice, leave it at those one or two posts....do we really need a dozen people jumping in with the same answers/points of views just to make someone else look like the asshole? yes, everyone has different opinnions, but each person doesn't need to express this opinion when it has already been done!

admittedly i just typed this post without reading it over...it is a rant, i am aware...but after reading through a couple recent posts it is just what i have noticed..this forum has been called clicky(sp?) - and it is for the sole reason that people who have the same types of beliefs stick together - belittling "other clicks" will get you no where and will just lead to problems for those who are less knowledgable and who are only looking for a stable set of beliefs to follow...when thye have 2 or 3 or 4 different groups of people telling them variations of the same (or different) views, they are no better off than they were standing there at the fish store in a crowd....

/end rant, sorry if it doesn't make sense at all
 
I've stated before and I'll state again...

regardless of if you buy the fish or not the store will get another shipment in. They only pay about .05 cents a piece for those betta's (maybe more if they are the more varied tail types..but not much more..trust me). They have a continuous contract shipment with a bulk supplier.

If there are fish in poor condition there when they get a new shipment in..they dispose of the sick fish and put a new one in it's place. They do not care about the fish, or whether or not anyone buys it. Like I mentioned previously "someone" will eventually come along and buy a betta. 1 person buying 1 betta justifies the entire next shipment.

So in conclusion, my point is...if you want to rescue the fish..rescue it. If you don't want to..don't. It's really not going to make a difference (store-wise) either way.

Do what makes YOU feel good as a person.

That..is the black and white of it.
 
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