My Fishless Cycling Readings (update)

[waterdrop]

Ruby,

When hardness (either GH or KH) is in mg/l (equiv to ppm for our purposes) then you divide by 17.9 to get the measurement into german degrees of hardness.

So, for instance, a GH of 120ppm is 6.7 degrees.

A reading of KH=40ppm is KH=2.2 degrees (KH below 4 is very soft and pH will be expected to drop soon).

Remember, only KH is used as an "action item" to help you predict pH crashes.

Your tap water GH is 80, so you have some calcium coming in when you do water change, which is great, that's all you'll ever need as far has having some calcium in there I think, especially as far as providing some for the bacteria.

Your tap water KH, however, is quite soft, so this will bear some watching and discussion.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rubyuk]

Ruby,

When hardness (either GH or KH) is in mg/l (equiv to ppm for our purposes) then you divide by 17.9 to get the measurement into german degrees of hardness.

So, for instance, a GH of 120ppm is 6.7 degrees.

A reading of KH=40ppm is KH=2.2 degrees (KH below 4 is very soft and pH will be expected to drop soon).

Remember, only KH is used as an "action item" to help you predict pH crashes.

Your tap water GH is 80, so you have some calcium coming in when you do water change, which is great, that's all you'll ever need as far has having some calcium in there I think, especially as far as providing some for the bacteria.

Your tap water KH, however, is quite soft, so this will bear some watching and discussion.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks Waterdrop

I don't know whether that means I need to be worried or not

Do I need to take any action now to prevent any kind of crash or stall during the final part of my cycle?

p.s I'm slightly confused with the water Chemistry as before I started the hobby I checked with my local water authority and they confirmed I had relatively soft water,which is evidenced by what you say about my Kh but my Gh reading equates to very very very hard water according to the test booklet? Shouldn't the Gh be much lower to also support the fact that my water is soft? ie how can one say I have very soft water but the other say my water is off the scale in terms of being hard?

 

[waterdrop]

Here's a little chart re GH generalizations:

General Hardness Table
0 to 4 dH 0 to 70 ppm Very Soft
4 to 8 dH 70 to 140 ppm Soft
8 to 1 dH 140 to 210 ppm Medium Hard
12 to 18 dH 210 to 320 ppm Fairly Hard
18 to 30 dH 320 to 530 ppm Hard
Higher Very Hard

It does look as if your tap water starts out close to very soft (80ppm) but that somehow that GH goes upward in your tank.

I know its confusing that the terms soft and hard are used for both general hardness(GH) and carbonate hardness(KH) but only the KH is useful knowing the risk of acid production causing a pH crash. You have to measure KH daily, right along with your other things and be able to plot its values together with pH to get a better feel sometimes of how KH movement will "lead" pH movement.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rubyuk]

Here's a little chart re GH generalizations:

General Hardness Table
0 to 4 dH 0 to 70 ppm Very Soft
4 to 8 dH 70 to 140 ppm Soft
8 to 1 dH 140 to 210 ppm Medium Hard
12 to 18 dH 210 to 320 ppm Fairly Hard
18 to 30 dH 320 to 530 ppm Hard
Higher Very Hard

It does look as if your tap water starts out close to very soft (80ppm) but that somehow that GH goes upward in your tank.

I know its confusing that the terms soft and hard are used for both general hardness(GH) and carbonate hardness(KH) but only the KH is useful knowing the risk of acid production causing a pH crash. You have to measure KH daily, right along with your other things and be able to plot its values together with pH to get a better feel sometimes of how KH movement will "lead" pH movement.

~~waterdrop~~

So what do i need to do now if anything to prevent this becoming a serious issue or is it ok to leave things as they are for now?

I'd be mortified if after 50 days of cycling something happened now to send me back to square one when I appear so close to being fully cycled

 

[Rubyuk]

Hi Guys

whilst checking to see if anyone has/had posted any suggestions/tasks I need to carry out to rectify any potential problem with my high Gh and Low Kh I'be been reading loads of internet stuff and through my books to see if there was any 'trouble shooting' guide on this topic like i'd get if buying a TV

As you know I'm a worrier (if such a word exists) and am desperate to avoid any last minute hiccups if I can.

I might be imaganing problems where there are none with this Gh/Kh business as so far my Ph is holding up at 7.5 but my research states that low Kh can cause a sudden crash anytime.

Regular posters to my threads from the beginning will recall that because of my low Kh when I started (lower now than on day 1) members told me to expect/watch out for a sudden Ph crash and possible remedies if that happened,I think included adding cooking Bicarb Soda?

Was wondering whether from my stats I've posted whether its the high nitrates that are remaining constant that are effecting my gh/kh?

I recall that earlier on in my cycle members were surprised that my nitrates had not gone off the chart much earlier until learning that I have quite a few live plants that are supposed to be good at removing nitrate etc out of water) Well now nitrates are remaining off the chart whenever I test.

Is a large water change a possible answer now given that I'm practically at end of cycle anyway?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

just monitor it for now, if the pH is fine then it's fine, just test pH every day (every 12 hrs if poss) and if it starts to drop then you'll need to buffer up the KH which will in turn hold the pH higher. sometimes buffering can be as easy as just doing a water change, sometimes you add crushed coral or bicarb, the response is really different depending on the individual circumstances. for now, if it aint broke don't fix it. leave it alone but keep a close eye on the pH and let us know if it drops.

 

[Rubyuk]

just monitor it for now, if the pH is fine then it's fine, just test pH every day (every 12 hrs if poss) and if it starts to drop then you'll need to buffer up the KH which will in turn hold the pH higher. sometimes buffering can be as easy as just doing a water change, sometimes you add crushed coral or bicarb, the response is really different depending on the individual circumstances. for now, if it aint broke don't fix it. leave it alone but keep a close eye on the pH and let us know if it drops.

Sorry,already did a 45% water change yetserday before I read this

Just to update

Yesterday afternoon I did a 45% water change. (sorry Miss W I'd already done it before I got chance to read your message)
After Ph test with API kit was still 7.5
A couple of hours later I tested for Nitrate but still the same high reading.

Added dose of ammonia last night as usual.

Tests this morning at the 12 hour stage after last nights ammonia dose

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate Still no change in reading
Ph 6.8
Gh 220ppm
Kh 20-30 ppm

My Gh has dropped from the high 320ppm of 4 days ago

My Kh is still low

Of more concern (I think) is the fact my Ph has now taken a drop in conjuction with my lowering Gh and Kh

Does this mean a Ph crash is on the way to stall my cycle or is even happening as we speak?

Do I need to buy/add anything now to the tank to increase Ph/Gh/Kh or would you just keep monitoring?

Just so I know, if I don't need to take any action now,at what readings do I need to take drastic action and what is that action?

I see some tanks in LFS with little white bags of I assume coral on the substrate,is that what I need?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yes now the pH has dropped it's cause for concern.

remind me what your tap water pH and KH levels are?

If it's higher from the tap than the tank then just doing a series of water changes over hte next few days should bring it back up to where it should be, if not then you'll need to buffer, we usually advise using bicarb while fishless cycling, just dissolve 1tsp in some water and pour it into the tank for now, give it an hour or so then test the levels again and report back.

 

[Rubyuk]

yes now the pH has dropped it's cause for concern.

remind me what your tap water pH and KH levels are?

If it's higher from the tap than the tank then just doing a series of water changes over hte next few days should bring it back up to where it should be, if not then you'll need to buffer, we usually advise using bicarb while fishless cycling, just dissolve 1tsp in some water and pour it into the tank for now, give it an hour or so then test the levels again and report back.

Miss W

Did tapwater tests with my API kit this afternoon on tap water that had been standing for about 4/5 hours

Ph 7.2
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ammonia 1 ?? (yes I was confused at that,tried it twice with same result.Tested again with my nutrafin kit and that has tap water ammonia as 0 which I know it is)

I only have my original Nutafin kit for Gh/Kh

Readings this afternoon on tapwater

Gh 60
Kh 30 (even 25 at a guess)

So py Ph is slightly down (6.8 on tank water with API test this morning) but Gh is higher in the tank and Kh now the same,just about

So just to clarify,does this mean keep monitoring and doing daily water changes (if so what %) or do I add bicarb soda now (not sure if there are other kinds of baking soda so if you can confirm which variety)

Is Bicarb better than the bag of crushed coral that I also see mentioned on here?

I'll keep checking tonight Miss W to see if you've had chance to reply,then I can go out and buy whatever I need tomorrow

 

[Rubyuk]

Hi guys

Sorry to interupt your Roast Beef and Yorkshire puddings



Todays readings (day 52) 12 hours after ammonia dose

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 7.0
Kh 30ppm
Gh 220ppm


Nitrate: My API test shows no change in colour from last couple of tests.In reality I think this is probably the 40 colour range so maybe not quite as high/off the scale as I may have lead you to previously believe but my Nutrafin kit which was showing an off the scale reading or at least 110 (highest colour on card) has definately reduced this morning.Colour probably somewhere between the 20 and 50 ranges.

I carried out some tests on the same tap water I tested yesterday,but obviously this time the water has been standing for good 24 hours

Ph 7.2
Kh 20ppm
Gh 60ppm

These readings on my tap water are the same as yesterdays.

I assume I'm now in my Quialifying week?

What next with regards to my possible Gh/Kh/Ph crashing problem?

My tank Ph has slightly risen from the 6.8 it was yesterday and my nitrates seem to have lowered.

I have not as yet done a second water change as I was waiting to test this morning and see what you guys think.

Water change this afternoon or just keep monitoring?

If anyone can get back to me after they're Sunday lunch it would be appreciated.Then I know if I have to do a large water change this afternoon and/or go out and buy some bicarbonate of soda etc.

I'm assuming as my tank Ph seems to have stabilised,even increased that the advise might be that water change and bicarb are not yet needed and to keep monitoring?

If you remember from my readings at the start of cycling my ph gradually increased so not sure if the dorset pea gravel,Carrib eco planting substrate or something else is buffering the Ph and the Gh but why would the Kh go back down to the level of my tap water when the Gh hasn't?

I still assume my KH is dangerously low,even though its no different to my tap water now?

 

[Rubyuk]

Just to update on my fishless cycle and Ph/Water hardness etc

Day 53

12 hour test Ammonia and Nitrite both zero
Nitrate 40
Ph 7.0
Kh 30
Gh 220

Tap water test on overnight standing water

Ph 7.2
Kh 20
Gh 60

Day 54 (today 9/3/09)

12 hour test Ammonia and Nitrite both zero
Ph 7.2 (which is same as my tap water)

Ph has now risen again from the 6.8 it dropped to the day following the 45% water change.

Things seem to be back on track although I've no idea as to why Ph would fall and rise again without me adding anything to the water

 

[Miss Wiggle]

sorry i didn't get back to you yesterday, bit of a big/busy day for me. My lovely other half took me for a day out and asked me to marry him so as you can imagine fish forums was kind of the last thing on my mind yesterday

anyway it's good news that it's come back up, i think something in your tank must be giving off some calcium to buffer it up. just keep monioring it, if it drops below 7 again then do a 50% water change, because you're right at the end of the cycle i would just control it with water changes not bicarb or crushed coral, once the cycle is done you most liekly won't need them so just water change to add buffer to the water if ti needs it.

 

[Smoothy]

sorry i didn't get back to you yesterday, bit of a big/busy day for me. My lovely other half took me for a day out and asked me to marry him so as you can imagine fish forums was kind of the last thing on my mind yesterday

Congratulations!!!

 

[Rubyuk]

Congratulations Miss W

I take it you said yes

 

[Dave125]

How are things shaping up Ruby?