Multiple fish from LFS have same symptoms and soon dead

[bbrannon4]

This has happened to me in three different species of fish (generally one of each, the rest have been fine) all from different tanks at the store, and two different purchases. Just today I picked up three apistos and 8 otos. When I got home an oto was already dead, and kind of looked crooked, or bent at the spine. Similarly one of the Apistos clearly had swim bladder issues and was swimming sideways - I put it in a salted quarantine tank but it died shortly after, and also looked sort of bent at the spine - this was less than three hours after the purchase. A few weeks ago the same thing happened with two kuhli loaches, one right when I got home and the other the next morning. They had the same initial swim bladder issue.

In the most recent case I’m not terribly worried about the money because the otos are fairly inexpensive and they actually gave me 3 for 2 on the Apistos because they were the last of the stock. I just want to know if I’m doing something wrong, or the store is. I’ve probably got 40 fish from this store and no issue with the rest of them. My best guess is maybe some trauma when they were being netted and that lead to an actual injury or stress? Also only in the case of the apisto, it looked like it may have been bullied from some fin damage (there was a betta in the tank with it).

And if it wasn’t clear, none of these fish touched my actual tanks. They either died in the bag, or in a quarantine tank with either pure water (with conditioner), or a little salt.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Well I see one problem on your end but there is more likely a problem at the store.

No fish really can do well in pure water which is devoid of minerals and/or trace elements. Building bonesand scales requires calcium in some form, often this starts out in a tank as calcium carbonate. As it dissolves the calcium can be used to make shells, scales and bones while the carbonate part contributes to KH which help to keep the pH stable.

Pure water, by definition contains just H20 and should have a neutral pH.. But as soon as it is exposed to the atmosphere it will accept CO2 and this creates some carbonic acid which causes the water to become acidic. So if you test pure water in an open container it will give you a reading below 7.0.

But I doubt that water caused the spine to bend that rapidly. So i fall back to the store, As to the cause there are multiple possibilities. Water quality is one, but there are diseases which cause it as well and then there are genetic defects and injuries.

Because the fish are dying in the bag on the way home, or soon after you put then into your tanks, I would for sure blame the store. Either way, they have a water quality or disease issue. This is likely as the fish came out of different tanks at the store.

One last possibility is the fish arrived at the store with the problem. But any good store should know from whom to buy and whom to avoid which can reduce the loss potential. Either way, it still points to the store. They know how many fish are being lost to such problems and should know to change suppliers.

Can you shop elsewhere or is the one store it? There are plenty of good shippers in the states selling healthy fish. Try Wet Spot, for one. https://www.wetspottropicalfish.com/ If price is not a major issue, try Dans Fish at https://dansfish.com/catalog

 

[bbrannon4]

i shouldn’t have said pure, I just meant I didn’t put anything in it but salt, but it was tap water, which locally has some hardness and plenty of minerals.

It’s the only local store within a half hour, but there are others not too far away. This store just has great reviews in general and like I mentioned, roughly 36/40 fish have been fine. If they had a widespread water or other issue, would you expect it to be more prevalent?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Not necessarily. Even within the same species different individuals can be more or less at risk.

But, if you have a choice of stores and your experience showed one store seemed to have issues more than the others while a diferent store had the fewest issues, then it is your fault if you keep buying from the store with the most issues. You cannot blame the store from making the choice where to buy.

Well the same applies to where your store gets its fish. Yeats back I worked with a person who imported fish. I helped her by picking them up at the trans-shipper and meeting hwe with them halfway to her home.It turned her 8+ hour round rip into more like a 4+ hour one. She was a friend and I did this to help her, but also because I was allowed to piggy back her order and to get fish at import prices. She would get lists from the transshippers with pricing and availability from a number of vendors/breeders in Asia. It took her some time, but she learned which fish species to buy from which outfits to get the best results.

She shpped for specific species and chose different vendors depending on the species she needed. So she got more healthy fish this way. I was able to take advantage of that knowledge. I lost very few of the fish I bought that way and what I paid for fish was less than most stores. It may even be less than some wholesalers pay.

Besides. any fish which dies on the way home from the store in the bag was a goner before it even went in. I once shipped a box of bristlenose plecos from NY to Alaska in late April. I sent them out manday kate afternoon Monday and they got delayed and did not arrive until Friday early afternoon. They were all still alive.

 

[Colin_T]

You need to check the quality of the fish before you get them and watch how the person catches them.

Look at the fish in the tank and make sure none are bent, skinny or diseased. Try to avoid getting those fish. If the person catching them gives you a bent fish (check them in the bucket before they bag them up), tell them you want a straight fish. The bent Otocinclus should have been noticeable in the bucket before bagging. The Apistogramma is a bit skinny.

Watch the person catching them. If it takes more than a couple of seconds to catch the fish, it will be stressed. I have seen shop assistants chase fish all over a tank for several minutes trying to catch them with one net. The fish died within 24 hours of me getting them. They need to use 2 nets and guide the fish into one with the other. It should take seconds and the fish should be quickly lifted out and put into a container of water from that aquarium.

Don't add salt to an aquarium unless the fish is sick and has an issue that salt can treat. If the fish is stressed, putting it in new water with salt can push it over the edge.

I would say you are probably unlucky and got given a couple of dud fish. Just check them in the bucket before they bag them up.

 

[GaryE]

When I buy fish, I know I may not be able to pick individuals. So I study the tank. If it contains fish with problems like bent spines, I don't buy anything from it. There will be future shipments, and they may be good. Bent spines can be injury, or communicable disease. I take no risks.

With high end fish like Apistos, I choose the fish I buy.

For transportation, my best LFS isn't "L", at 4 hours away. They happily agree to go with four shoalers per bag, and to single pack anything territorial. It's worth asking.

Any store will get bad batches from the farms. They may change farms as a result, but it happens, unavoidably. No matter what you do, there will be times when you get nasty surprises.

 

[bbrannon4]

You need to check the quality of the fish before you get them and watch how the person catches them.

Look at the fish in the tank and make sure none are bent, skinny or diseased. Try to avoid getting those fish. If the person catching them gives you a bent fish (check them in the bucket before they bag them up), tell them you want a straight fish. The bent Otocinclus should have been noticeable in the bucket before bagging. The Apistogramma is a bit skinny.

Watch the person catching them. If it takes more than a couple of seconds to catch the fish, it will be stressed. I have seen shop assistants chase fish all over a tank for several minutes trying to catch them with one net. The fish died within 24 hours of me getting them. They need to use 2 nets and guide the fish into one with the other. It should take seconds and the fish should be quickly lifted out and put into a container of water from that aquarium.

Don't add salt to an aquarium unless the fish is sick and has an issue that salt can treat. If the fish is stressed, putting it in new water with salt can push it over the edge.

I would say you are probably unlucky and got given a couple of dud fish. Just check them in the bucket before they bag them up.

Thank you, this is great advice. The fish looked ok to me in the tank, and the guy caught them fairly quickly, but I didn’t watch him carefully or check them in the container.

The salt was just a quick thought to potentially help with the swim bladder issue in the apisto.

 

[Colin_T]

There's no cure for true swim bladder problems and salt wouldn't help either.

 

[Back in the fold]

That’s a shame that happened but it’s happened to everybody at one time or another so don’t feel like The Lone Ranger . Study the fish and study the aquarium they’re in and if anything at all looks funny and gives you doubt then pass on it . Don’t blame your local pet shop either . These things happen . Stick with them .

 

[emeraldking]

There are many reasons why new purchased fish can die from. Yes, the problem can already be present at the store but the source could also be at the wholesaler or even at the fish farm where it came from. Like other members have already mentioned, observe the tank they're in at the store. Try to see doubtful symptoms, how plants are doing, basically the overall of the tank before deciding to buy a fish from such a tank. No matter if you're so drawn to a certain fish in that tank but you're also aware that something is off, don't buy that fish.

 

[realgwyneth]

One thing I'm learning, the hard way, is to ask the LFS when the fish came in. I try to wait until the fish have been in the LFS's tank for at least 5 days. The way local stores get their fish sounds really stressful, and, sadly, it's not that surprising that some die as a result. Waiting a few days lets the fish get over some of that stress, get some food, and so on. And, as the others have said, I study the tank and observe the movement of all the fish in the tank, not just the ones I'm interested in. If there's anything sus at all, I come back another day.