Move to RODI, fish gone into hiding, anything to worry about?

[oafish]

Hi, I have recently moved to RODI water (mixed with tap) due to having 40ppm nitrates straight from the tap. I tried some nitrate removal filters (Pozanni etc) before going to RODI but they were not particularly effective.

I have a Green Terror, a Jack Dempsey, a Gold Eartheater (Geophagus Caqueta) and a Bristlenose pleco (super red), all relatively juvenile under 6 months old. The GT and the JD were active and always swimming around but past last two days have started hiding away and the tank always looks empty. The other two are fine but they generally bunker down anyway. They are still eating but less enthusiastically and will pop out from hiding, eat a little and go back to hiding again.

Tank is 240L and I have done a daily 40L water change for 6 days (1 per day) to get the nitrate down. I am mixing RODI with tap at ratio of 25L RODI to 15L tap and this changed parameters (reductions vs tap) like so:
KH from 14 to 6,
GH from 19 to 8,
PH from 7.8 to 7.2
Nitrates from 40 to 10 (although this varies at the tap, sometimes 30s, sometimes 40s to start).

I think my PH and KH/GH was on the high side for these fish anyway, so the reduction in hardness I would think is no bad thing longer term. Maybe the JD could do with the GH being a little higher? If so then I'll probably go full RODI and use buffers / re-mineralise because adding more tap just pushes the nitrates higher.

Hopefully the behavioural change is temporary and unrelated to the RODI but I thought I would double check that I'm not missing anything in relation to what I have done so far with the water change. Any thoughts, just wait it out?

 

[Colin_T]

It's probably due to the daily water changes and change in pH, GH and KH.
Maybe do the water changes every couple of days and do a 50/50 mix for a few weeks. Then do the 25/15 mix.

Keep the water changes small for a while until they have settled down.

Give them a week or two and see how they go.

 

[oafish]

Thanks Colin, this was my last change and now going back to weekly, I had quite a high nitrogen level so had to reduce and thought daily would be sufficient gaps to not cause them any shock. I'll keep an eye on them.

 

[Wills]

Hmmmm rock hard water and high nitrate, you wouldn't happen to know where this is by any chance?

Your water sounds very specifically like mine haha!

With you softening the water I'd be careful with the JD as they do best in neutral to hard water. I'd also be careful mixing South and Central American Cichlids. They come from quite different places and have different water requirements, they also have quite different levels of aggression (generally) but your JD and GT are probably well matched. I've not come across that species of Geo before looks great! Geophagus from the 'Surinamensis' group (well all of them really) are quite gregarious fish and do much better in small groups of 4 or more.

The 240 litre tank is probably not going to be best suited as these fish grow into adult hood the JD or GT could claim the whole tank for themselves, both can be tricky to keep tank mates with. Not knowing too much about the Geo but a quick google says about 8 inches so similar to Winemilleri size but the JD and GT can both hit 10 inches and would really do best in something over 300 litres, ideally over 400 with a good fooprint.

Wills

 

[oafish]

Yes I do know where it is, it's about 20 minutes from my house, haha!

My JD is female so I'm expecting her to land between 6-8 inches but time will tell. My 240L tank is 4 feet long but if they outgrow in time then I have space for a 6 foot in future. This JD and GT seem to be doing well together so far (had to swap the previous JD due to extreme aggression) and the GT has also done well in the hard water so I am inclined to go a little harder for the JD, maybe 10-12 degrees. The problem is those nitrates going up when I add more tap to make the water harder but I can probably still keep them under 20 with a weekly change.

Just need to see them all through this lull, hopefully nothing serious. I have pictures of them all in my other thread in new members section, the gold eartheater really is beautiful.

 

[Wills]

Yes I do know where it is, it's about 20 minutes from my house, haha!

My JD is female so I'm expecting her to land between 6-8 inches but time will tell. My 240L tank is 4 feet long but if they outgrow in time then I have space for a 6 foot in future. This JD and GT seem to be doing well together so far (had to swap the previous JD due to extreme aggression) and the GT has also done well in the hard water so I am inclined to go a little harder for the JD, maybe 10-12 degrees. The problem is those nitrates going up when I add more tap to make the water harder but I can probably still keep them under 20 with a weekly change.

Just need to see them all through this lull, hopefully nothing serious. I have pictures of them all in my other thread in new members section, the gold eartheater really is beautiful.

I thought you might haha which shop did you get these from?

We are cursed with truly terrible water around here and I don't understand why, the only other place in the UK I see people with the same kind of water is London and thats mainly from the inner city areas where there are a lot of people re-using the same water essentially.

I also have an RO machine which works for my 100 litre tank but is broken at the moment and I'm re-joining the big tank club soon so have been experimenting with terrestrial plants. I have a Monsterra in a floating basket hung to the side of my tank with the roots in the water and its taken a long time but seeing very low nitrates so with enough in there and enough growth I reckon that could be the answer. You can also get nitrate reactors which are mainly from the marine side of the hobby but can work for the freshwater side. Its basically a slow filter that grows a certain kind of anaerobic bacteria that converts the nitrate too.

In terms of the hardness/softness like I say the only one I'm concerned about is the JD but its not like you are going super soft so I think you should be fine.

Wills

 

[oafish]

I thought you might haha which shop did you get these from?

Amazing it was that obvious just from water parameters, haha!

I went to a lot of different places before settling on Scott's Aquatics over on Longhill. He has a great variety of cichlids and a lovely clean store, the water and fish always look in good health. Think his stock lands on a Tuesday, so if I'm browsing I tend to head up on Wednesday morning.

 

[Wills]

Basically we are one of two areas I've come across on this forum that has this kind of water and if you didn't know where the picture was it means you are from London haha!

I went to Frisbys the other day and that was in really good shape, best I've seen it for a while. I like Ings Lane and Maidenhead too. I live right near Octopus 8 and get on great with the guys there but they dont often have anything for me but I think I've decided to buy my next big tank from them I have heard of Scotts Aquatics but never been so I now know what I'm doing tomorrow haha!

Wills

 

[Lynnzer]

I thought you might haha which shop did you get these from?

We are cursed with truly terrible water around here and I don't understand why, the only other place in the UK I see people with the same kind of water is London and thats mainly from the inner city areas where there are a lot of people re-using the same water essentially.

I also have an RO machine which works for my 100 litre tank but is broken at the moment and I'm re-joining the big tank club soon so have been experimenting with terrestrial plants. I have a Monsterra in a floating basket hung to the side of my tank with the roots in the water and its taken a long time but seeing very low nitrates so with enough in there and enough growth I reckon that could be the answer. You can also get nitrate reactors which are mainly from the marine side of the hobby but can work for the freshwater side. Its basically a slow filter that grows a certain kind of anaerobic bacteria that converts the nitrate too.

In terms of the hardness/softness like I say the only one I'm concerned about is the JD but its not like you are going super soft so I think you should be fine.

Wills

I live north of you in the east of Durham and also suffer horrible hard water but not high nitrates.
As I have 7 tanks that need different water parameters for the fish in them, I was buying loads of Asda/Tesco bottle water to mix and dilute to the needs of each tank.
Then I made a rainwater collection system and even made an in-line filter to put on the gutter downpipe.
It's great filling the old asda 5 litre bottles BUT ---- where the hell has the rain gone? It's only really rained for a short spell on 2 days.
It looks cloudy today so here's hoping.........

 

[oafish]

It rained here last night so hopefully you are ok.

Back on topic for a minute, the Dempsey is now swimming and eating again but the Terror is still in shock. Been a few days of him staying at the bottom of tank completely still, fins clamped down, he will move maybe once or twice per day to different hiding spots. He isn't panting or gasping for air but hasn't eaten for two days now, so I'm fearing the worst for him.

Even though I made the changes gradually over a week long period and the Geophagus doesn't appear to be impacted, I'm still having to assume the shock is to do with that change in hardness and PH (or nitrate reduction). Yesterday morning I added back 40L of hard tap water, which brought GH up to 12 and from then on I saw the immediate improvement from the Dempsey, which has led back to her eating today.

Just as I typed that last sentence I saw the Terror do two full lengths of the tank before hiding again, which is the most he's moved for days, so fingers crossed he survives.

 

[oafish]

Another 48 hours gone, he did eat something Sunday night but nothing yesterday and still hiding bottom of the tank. Starting to wonder if it could be something else other than shock from the water changes.

 

[Wills]

Another 48 hours gone, he did eat something Sunday night but nothing yesterday and still hiding bottom of the tank. Starting to wonder if it could be something else other than shock from the water changes.

Have you done anything else since switching to RO? Or even a week or two before? New fish, plants, decor etc?

Wills

 

[oafish]

Sorry for delay been out. I swapped out some driftwood about two weeks back, added two large in place of three medium pieces, about same volume overall. Soaked the driftwood for 4 weeks before it went in. PH currently stable at about 7.4,

Dempsey back to normal, eating and swimming fine and colours look great but GT not much improvement. I have some Melafix, I could dose as a precaution in case is not related to the shock - what do you think?

 

[Essjay]

Melafix is just tee tree oil. It's not something I would use. You need to find the cause before medicating the tank, often water changes are all that's needed.

There is a current thread on the subject of medication, it's worth a read.

Medications and things

Please, slow up. There are a lot of threads at the moment with members throwing things at their tanks. Just for the fish's sake slow up and think carefully about what you are putting in your tank and why. Take your time before adding anything into your tank. There are a lot of products out there...

www.fishforums.net

 

[oafish]

Thanks Essjay, the concern at the moment is that the water changes caused the shock, so I'm trying to lay off for a week or so. Nitrates are currently under 10, ammonia and nitrate zero.

It's horrible seeing a previously very active fish looking like it's at death's door but I'll just have to suck it up, wait it out and hope for the best.