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More On Clown Loaches

ShinySideUp

Fish Herder
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Over and over again on this forum there are statements along the lines of clown loaches needing a million gallon tank and have to be kept in groups of 100,000 or more and that they grow to the size of whales and yet they are still sold in fish shops -- even the most respected ones.

By all means try to keep all fish in the manner which their species might normally live in the wild but it is a fact of life that not everything is perfect, even for tropical fish. Perhaps my two rabbits would love to live in a big warren in the woods rather than the shed and run we built for them and to eventually die in a gruesome manner either by disease or predation. My guinea pigs may or may not want to live in a Peruvian mountain cave and breed into such a huge population that every now and again they will run out of food and starve to death but seem perfectly happy on an upper level with a balcony outside in the same shed as my rabbits. Whilst my border collie might wish he was a wolf and run with a pack hunting caribou, he seems to get by lying upside down on my sofa, snoring. Along the same lines, I have six clown loaches which live in a 240 litre 50" tank and seem perfectly happy pottering around in their caves and biting the heads off my plants. They are fed, kept in excellent water quality, and have never suffered from any disease in the six years I have had them. The largest is five inches long, the smallest is a runt that never grew at all and is still only and inch and a half.

In this country alone there must be 1000's if not hundreds of thousands of clown loaches kept in less-than-perfect conditions but it is for the responsible fish-keeper to do their best for their fish safe in the knowledge that they are in better hands with them than with some erk who hasn't the faintest idea about feeding or water quality.

If we were to be honest, NO tank, whatever it's size or condition, is the correct place for a fish who's natural habitat is a large lake, fast-flowing stream or tropical sea.

My fish tank may not be the largest in the world but I am comfortable that ALL my fish are in better conditions than they could hope for in the wild and certainly better than some other home aquaria. Let's let people have clown loaches without the dreadful guilt trip that some would inflict on them and merely advise them on how to make the best of the facilities that are availble to them.

Rant over. Time to feed my fish.
 
Over and over again on this forum there are statements along the lines of clown loaches needing a million gallon tank and have to be kept in groups of 100,000 or more and that they grow to the size of whales and yet they are still sold in fish shops -- even the most respected ones.

.


Excellent :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mine was accutally big than my tank when it died

Steve
 
Completely agree with the first statement, can't tell you the number of times I've heard that. Agree also that no tank will have the perfect natural environment that fish experience but if you keep them happy with good water conditions, well fed, planted tank with hiding spots and good tank mates I don't see the problem. All together I've stopped keeping clowns, problem solved.
 
If we are going to compare Clown Loaches to Guinea Pigs, our three cavvies have about 2.5mx2.5m area to live in (in our lounge) and when you take off all the hair, they are smaller than typical 25-30cm Clown Loaches. "Marge" (rip) would struggle to turn around in your 240l.
 
But this is a forum, and as other forums im a member of. There will always be people ready to put you down, what ever you do.

PS I know there is a hell of a lot of people on hear who know more about it than me. Im hear to learn, and to pick up tips and tricks, off better fish keepers than me. But im still new, and clown loach owners seem to get picked on more than others. Its what ive noticed.

Steve
 
If we are going to compare Clown Loaches to Guinea Pigs, our three cavvies have about 2.5mx2.5m area to live in (in our lounge) and when you take off all the hair, they are smaller than typical 25-30cm Clown Loaches. "Marge" (rip) would struggle to turn around in your 240l.

But that is one of my points, nothing is perfect, we have to do our best with the facilities we have. Go to any pet shop and see what they sell as adequate housing for a guinea pig and more alarmingly, for a rabbit. Many times the advice given here on this forum is "your tank is too small, get a bigger tank or take the fish back to the shop", and what will the shop do? Sell that fish to someone else. Taking a clown loach back to a shop is just a case of out of sight, out of mind. Our guinea pigs and rabbits, are 'rescue' animals, as is our dog (and indeed all our past dogs), we have taken them in because we believe we can give them a better home than the previous owner and to some extent I feel I have done the same for my clown loaches. I believe they are better with me than with some other 'clown'.

Even if a tank is eight feet long, as some have said is a requirement, a group of ten clowns each 12 to 14 inches long would be cramped so I put it to the forum that no one here has a tank big enough to house ten fully-grown clown loaches in the conditions they would experience in the wild and yet we are constantly told that they should be in large groups. Does this mean that no one should ever have Clown Loaches? Perhaps so. Indeed my last clown loach will be very lonely as I shan't be buying any more, not because I fear I can't keep them but for the fact that when I first got clowns I was under the impression that they were bred in this country but I find they are not and this disturbs me as I don't like to think I am destroying a natural habitat.

One last thing though regarding your guinea pigs. You must remember that fish have a 3D world whereas GP's have two dimensions. Your pigs have an area of 6.25 square metres but they are only about 10cms high so their effective "tank" size is 0.625 cubic metres, not so big now is it?
 
Just to put that guinea pig living space "volume" into perspective...

Lets be generous and say your Clown Loaches use 25cm of the ~50cm height of your 250l, that is 0.12 cubic metres... That's considerably smaller than the pig's 0.625 cubic metres and a 6x2x2's 0.33 cubic metres (again using 25cm of depth).

The best example I know of for keeping Clown Loaches in suitable conditions was "VickiandKev"'s hand-built plywood 8x4x2 tank, put together just under two year's ago, it held 30-odd Clowns ranging from babies to adults.

Sadly, some fish are sold in the millions in the UK alone, because of their cuteness factor in the shops, with little regard for their long term welfare and needs when they turn into "monsters." Such fish include:-
Clown Loaches
Common and Sailfin Plecs
Oscars
Bala SharksPasgasius
SharksRed Tail Catfish

If people properly researched the needs of fish like the above and shops were enforced to not tell lies like the standard "yeah, [fish x] will be fine ion your tank" then the market for these "tank busters" would die down to a dribble, as only a tiny percentage of the UK's hobbiests have tanks 6-foot or longer.
 
SSU, I have a 24x15x12 tank, how do I set it up for Clown Loach so that they enjoy it? The three Clown Loach I want to put in it are 11" long and 4" deep.

Any advice welcome mate, look forward to your reply... Cheers.
 
Surely if 30+ clowns in a 8x4x2 tank is acceptable then 15 in a 8x2x2 tank is also acceptable and with that reckoning 7 or 8 is also fine in a tank measuring 4x2x2 and so on!

I think the point being made by shineysideup ( a biker I presume) is that if some one ask's for advise on a problem with their clown loach or any fish for that matter, they do not need to be constantly told that their tank is unsuitable, they more than likely to know its not perfect already and their original question goes unanswered which is unhelpful for the fish concerned.

Even those of us with large tanks are kidding ourselves that our own tanks are what is needed when in fact nothing is perfect and these fish should be left in the wild but they are not and never will be. We as fish keepers have the responsibility to do the best for the fish in our care within the realms of our abilities but we all have restraints imposed upon us whether financial, space available or what ever.

The point being if a question is asked, lets answer it without the constant lecturing that seems more and more the norm.

nufsed.
 
pfft, looks like minnnt and i are the only wind up merchants here today :D
 
The point being if a question is asked, lets answer it without the constant lecturing that seems more and more the norm.

it's a familiar issue and there are arguments for and against calling out the suitablity of a tank for any given species when seperate questions are asked (could you hold your tongue if the question was about a common plec with ich which happened to be in a 10gal?). However, if anyones sees posts that are on the flaming end of the spectrum with regards to this kind of reply, then we encourage that the report button is clicked.
 
Surely if 30+ clowns in a 8x4x2 tank is acceptable then 15 in a 8x2x2 tank is also acceptable and with that reckoning 7 or 8 is also fine in a tank measuring 4x2x2 and so on!

I think the point being made by shineysideup ( a biker I presume) is that if some one ask's for advise on a problem with their clown loach or any fish for that matter, they do not need to be constantly told that their tank is unsuitable, they more than likely to know its not perfect already and their original question goes unanswered which is unhelpful for the fish concerned.

Even those of us with large tanks are kidding ourselves that our own tanks are what is needed when in fact nothing is perfect and these fish should be left in the wild but they are not and never will be. We as fish keepers have the responsibility to do the best for the fish in our care within the realms of our abilities but we all have restraints imposed upon us whether financial, space available or what ever.

The point being if a question is asked, lets answer it without the constant lecturing that seems more and more the norm.

nufsed.


So if someone came onto this forum and said "i have a 2ft tank with some Neon Tetra's in but they're not doing so well, they're washed out and hiding, any idea's what could be causing this? Other tank mates are a Common Plec, 3 Clown Loach, an Oscar and a Giraffe Cat. They all seem to get along great" we're just meant to advise what the issue could be with the Neons? :rolleyes:

The reason that a 4ft tank or less is not advised for Clown Loach is that they are super active fish that like to swim really quickly, especially at feeding time. The fact that they can potentially, eventually reach a foot long is also over looked at the time of purchase. The longer tank gives other occupants of the tank to feed rather than have it snatched from their mouths.

I think lecturing is a very strong word to use... at the end of the day it is a few words typed on a computer/phone screen.
 
Oscars and giraffe cats with Neons is nothing to due with tank size, just incompatible, in any tank. The issue there is their tank mates that are causing them to be scared s******* not that they are in a 2 ft tank.

Clowns actually can reach 18" I know a guy with several at 15"+

And I know well how clown loach behave thanks, having owned a shoal for more than 20 years. These are kept with a large shoal of cardinals among others all are well fed and healthy.

And lecturing was used in the right context.How many replies start " what size is your tank"? "It's not big enough", "You should keep them in larger numbers" etc, etc.

Do those questions help the OP cure his white spot?
 

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