Mixing Fish Types

[spacebass]

Hi, just starting a 25 gallon tank in Thailand water temperature is a natural 29'c , my lady wants two biggish fish, a goldfish and what she calls a money fish (good luck for her!), don't know the strength of that yet, I would like to keep some neon type smaller fish and suckers of the smaller variety these fish seem to be a bit opposite in characteristics and wonder if they will be Ok together, I am going by the 1" per gallon rule for want of better knowledge, the tank has only about 9" depth of water, will not have any plants in it and has a flossy filter underneath the supplied small stones.

 

[Jules H-T]

A goldfish will be eating the neons within 6 months, guaranteed. Once it's got a taste, all will be gone in a day or so.

 

[kat and james]

i'm not sure if they would be eaten, but as goldfish are coldwater fish, and tropicals are warm water fish it isn't a good idea. goldfish will not be happy in a warm water tank (and as my b/f's mum is experiencing now will develop bacterial problems, and eventually die ), and tropical fish will not be happy in a coldwater tank, also i believe that if the temp isn't warm enough the tetras (which i presume you were thinking of) will look pale, and therefore defy the whole reason you wanted to put them in the tank in the first place! i think that is right...

 

[red-devil0602]

don't know if it is a myth but i heard the gold fishes produce a slime that is toxic to tropicals.

 

[xander_chookeypud]

Im not sure about goldfish in slightly warm conditions cos i know nothing about them. But guppies are a nice smallish fish that can survive in natural temp conditions and are prob less likely to be eaten that the neons... thats if goldfish can be kept in those conditions...

 

[Jules H-T]

i'm not sure if they would be eaten,

I am- seeing 16 neons get eaten in 24 hours is the experience with which I offer this advice.

The toxic slime is a myth, I've kept tropicals and goldies together with no difficulties other than the "eat anything" nature of goldfish.

 

[dwarfgourami]

29C is high even for most tropicals, let alone goldfish. I don't know how people get round this in a warm country like Thailand.

 

[jungle king]

there was a question like this in the latest pfk mag the expert has kept mature goldfish with lake malawi chilids in a large scale pond put don't think it would work for an aquarium. The temp would has to be 26c or lower for the goldfish to cope without undue stress there metabolic rate speeds up at, the oxygen demand rises as well so my advice don't risk unless your dr Joe Smart a world authority on goldfish breeding and genetics

 

[Bloo]

don't know if it is a myth but i heard the gold fishes produce a slime that is toxic to tropicals.

It's a myth. There is absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever.
Discussed in this thread.

But as Goldfish are coldwater and are massive waste producers - and tropicals are tropical, it's not a good idea at all to mix the two.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

i'd still be most concerned about the 29C! goldies really ought not be kept at anything warmer than 24C; i'd look into something different unless you want to be constantly fighting high temperatures in your tank.

 

[Mr.September15]

Yeah I would go with them...Maybe if you bought a 3-5 gallon tank only for the goldfish...Then the problem would be solved. Then you can have a heated 29Gallon tank with tropical fish...Maybe a school of tetras and some cories...

 

[spacebass]

Thanks for all the replies great stuff.

I thought about the fact that goldfish are coldwater fish as a bit of an obvious contradiction but as you can imagine the fish shops here in Thailand have plenty of fish that look like goldfish in them, some with slightly elaborate fins and tails, and 'goldfish' are well known by Thai people so can it be that goldfish in the tropics have adapted to the warmth of everything? In fact there are quite a few ponds with big goldfish in them , different species?

Lets face it I am in the tropics and you guys are telling me water is too hot for tropical fish!! Funny!?

 

[dwarfgourami]

Yeah I would go with them...Maybe if you bought a 3-5 gallon tank only for the goldfish...Then the problem would be solved. Then you can have a heated 29Gallon tank with tropical fish...Maybe a school of tetras and some cories...

Arrowhead, goldfish CANNOT go in a 3-5 gallon tank; they need at least 20 gallon for the first fish, then 10 gallon more for each additional fish. Never volunteer advice on tank size etc until you have looked up the requirements of the fish in question! The fish would die in there. Besides, his main problem is that he lives in a country where the temperature is 29 C; this is too hot for most commonly sold tropicals even, so there would be no question of heating even a tropicals tank, you'd be struggling to keep it cool.

Spacebass, I imagine there might well be goldfish that are different from what we in the west think of as goldfish (those coldwater fish that come from China)- find out what there is locally.

And of course there are going to be tropical fish that are adapted to high temperatures too- I believe there are plenty of wild fish in Thailand for a start.

What I meant (though badly expressed) was that many of the common species we see here, e.g. many South American tetras and catfish, danios, livebearers etc, are better off in lower temperatures. There are tropics and tropics evidently, and you are in a particularly warm part of them. Have a look and see what is sold locally, then come back and we can discuss individual species.

Just a word of caution, because you see fish sold or kept under certain conditions in a shop, this is no guarantee that this is good for them. We could all tell you horror stories of what we have seen in lfs.

 

[spacebass]

Yeah I would go with them...Maybe if you bought a 3-5 gallon tank only for the goldfish...Then the problem would be solved. Then you can have a heated 29Gallon tank with tropical fish...Maybe a school of tetras and some cories...

Arrowhead, goldfish CANNOT go in a 3-5 gallon tank; they need at least 20 gallon for the first fish, then 10 gallon more for each additional fish. Never volunteer advice on tank size etc until you have looked up the requirements of the fish in question! The fish would die in there. Besides, his main problem is that he lives in a country where the temperature is 29 C; this is too hot for most commonly sold tropicals even, so there would be no question of heating even a tropicals tank, you'd be struggling to keep it cool.

Spacebass, I imagine there might well be goldfish that are different from what we in the west think of as goldfish (those coldwater fish that come from China)- find out what there is locally.

And of course there are going to be tropical fish that are adapted to high temperatures too- I believe there are plenty of wild fish in Thailand for a start.

What I meant (though badly expressed) was that many of the common species we see here, e.g. many South American tetras and catfish, danios, livebearers etc, are better off in lower temperatures. There are tropics and tropics evidently, and you are in a particularly warm part of them. Have a look and see what is sold locally, then come back and we can discuss individual species.

Just a word of caution, because you see fish sold or kept under certain conditions in a shop, this is no guarantee that this is good for them. We could all tell you horror stories of what we have seen in lfs.

Dwarf, thank you for your response and interest, I am afraid it will be hard for me to list species as communicating with Thai people in Fish shops is not easy, I was unable to communicate my need for ammonia even when pointing at the word on a Western packet, not to criticise the Thais if you pointed at any word in Thai script I would not understand it.

Do you think it is possible the thermometer is kaput? maybe I will buy another one, I also lived in Jamaica and the temperature there was similar though possibly a bit more humid, because the temperature varies so little from about 26 to 32 'c all the time .the point surely it must be that all fish in a lot of the tropics live in water around that temperature and lower temperatures are just not experienced.

Talking of horror stories, I was looking at some very exotic looking smallish fishe each in its own bottle , (with nothing else) I remarked how beautiful they were and why didn't we get some and the lady said 'Not for tank', 'what for then' I asked, 'They for fighhting, people gamble on them killing other fish' at that time it cro
rossed my mind of all the chat about saving the suffering of danios in fishless cycles , and thought to myself 'What a diverse world we live in!'.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Still, I think there may be some diversity even in the tropics, depending on how high up you are, what type of stream feeds the river etc etc. But I really don't know enough about local conditions. I do know that higher temperatures are recommended for some tropical fish than for others; for instance, some types of corydoras are said to happier with the higher temperatures than others. For those that prefer cooler temperatures, living in the Thai heat will not kill them as such, but it may speed up their metabolisms thus leading to a shorter lifespan. This is something which is clearly not to be recommended for a heated tank where you can control the temperature to obtain optimum conditions; in your case, it may be more difficult to do anything about. Still, at least you can avoid buying fish known not to like it too hot, like White Cloud Mountain minnows and danios.