Mix And Match Catfish?

[JDs4me]

Hi,
I am hopefully on my way to a cycled fishless 260 litre tank; pH 7.8; dgH 18-20; 26C...

Am planning 1 or 2 Jack Dempseys, and want several cats in there as well as I love them!

Have in mind any or all of the following, but as some like to be alone, some in groups, some conspecies tolerant, some not...advice please experts!

Spotted Raphael - Agamyxis Pectinifrons
Synodontis Eupterus
Synodontis Nigriventris
Synodontis Polli

From what I have researched these are not big growers (don't want to end up with a 'foot long'), averaging out at 6-8" (please correct me if wrong) and are happy with my water parameters. Don't want to go smaller as they may end up as Dempsey dinners. I would be happy with a small group of one or two of the above, or 1 of each...what would you recommend folks?

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Are you sure you meant Synodontis nigriventris? These do well to reach 7cm and need big groups of 10+ to form social hierachy (I have 12).

Planetcatfish lists S. polli as only reaching 10cm SL, pretty much the same size as S. lucipinnis and S. petricola, again pretty social as long as there are plenty of hidey holes they can roost in.

JDs have an aggressive reputation, so as far as Synodontis go, I would look at similar personality ones like the S. angelica.

Seriously fish suggest a duo of Jack Dempseys is a bad idea, singleton or 6+ in a much larger tank than a 260l.

 

[JDs4me]

Are you sure you meant Synodontis nigriventris? These do well to reach 7cm and need big groups of 10+ to form social hierachy (I have 12).

Planetcatfish lists S. polli as only reaching 10cm SL, pretty much the same size as S. lucipinnis and S. petricola, again pretty social as long as there are plenty of hidey holes they can roost in.

JDs have an aggressive reputation, so as far as Synodontis go, I would look at similar personality ones like the S. angelica.

Seriously fish suggest a duo of Jack Dempseys is a bad idea, singleton or 6+ in a much larger tank than a 260l.

great, this is the sort of clarification I need!

So, I have pretty much decided to go for a single male Dempsey...several people here state that the supposed aggressive nature of the Dempsey is somewhat exaggerated and having had one in the past would agree based on that, but it probably depends on the environment!

The S. nigriventris/polli/lucipinnis/petricola too small then you think; they would be stressed by the Dempsey even if in a group?

The S.angelica looks beautiful! Would you suggest just one (I see they reach 30cm and wonder if thats not too big for the tank?)

Hope you don't mind all the Q's...I want to get the mix right!

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Please bare in mind that the only cichlids I've kept to date are Steatocranus casuarius and tinanti, which have a Jeckyll and Hyde personality, so I don't have first hand experience of JDs. SeriouslyFish makes them out to be piscivores that prey on smaller fish, so at what size tankmates will a 20cm JD decide to not eat them, I have no idea. I would guess that you would want tankmates to reach a similar size, so perhaps Synodontis euptera/nigrita/angelica and alike would be safer bets. Now how these nastier synos would behave with an Agamyxis Pectinifrons is again an unknown for me, but I would guess things could get messy in a 4-foot tank, it feels a lot more plausable in something like my 5x2x2.

 

[JDs4me]

Please bare in mind that the only cichlids I've kept to date are Steatocranus casuarius and tinanti, which have a Jeckyll and Hyde personality, so I don't have first hand experience of JDs. SeriouslyFish makes them out to be piscivores that prey on smaller fish, so at what size tankmates will a 20cm JD decide to not eat them, I have no idea. I would guess that you would want tankmates to reach a similar size, so perhaps Synodontis euptera/nigrita/angelica and alike would be safer bets. Now how these nastier synos would behave with an Agamyxis Pectinifrons is again an unknown for me, but I would guess things could get messy in a 4-foot tank, it feels a lot more plausable in something like my 5x2x2.

OK I think I will focus on the synos...I plan a second tank in the future (bigger) so will have options if the need arises as the JD grows. I wonder if the angelica is easy to find - don't recall spotting one in the Portsmouth LFS's; anywhere in Southampton?

Thanks for the pointer to Seriously Fish btw!

 

[lloyd]

I havent kept jds before but some one on here keeps a jd journal and he keeps or kept a pair with various small fish. i think they were x ray tetra's. i wouldnt recomend mixing them though unless you are really confident and or have a back up plan

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Locally, Aquajardin in Fairoak is a catfish paradise, lots of unusual catfish including synos. I have not been there in a while (lack of car for several months), so I could not tell you what they have at the mo. I've still yet to get a proper look at it, but I think there is a ~20cm S. notata in Tropi-quaria (Shirley).

There is a wild caught S. angelica available for courier at http/www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/stores_productsinfo.asp?store=54&prod=513 (I've ordered S. brichardi, S. congica and M. polli from here, arrived excellently packaged).

 

[JDs4me]

if they have him/her when my tank is ready I will buy - another good website, thanks again! Will take a trip to Aquajardin when tank is up and ready, to look as much as to buy.

There is a lot of talk of wild-caught, hybrids, pure...while the description is pretty self-explanatory, are there particular types to avoid? Is it that some are more prone to disease than others, or is this info more relevant to potential breeders? It seems that some catfish are prone to losing their lovely markings as they mature?

Off to browse this section for more A's to these and other Q's!

 

[JDs4me]

shouldn't have visited TF2YD...too much choice!

 

[Wills]

Your in good hands with Goat

Just to chip in with the JD - they are over rated aggression wise often quite reclusive, but I wouldnt risk them with small fish but large disk characins or roundish barbs would be good.

I think the larger synos you are listing sound good and the spotted Dora will work out fine, from what I know they dont grow as large as the humbug cats and stay around 5 inches or so but they get big fat bellies. But are not very active.

Perhaps the widespread Hoplo (I forget the proper name but you know the one I mean Steve) as they cross into JD territory a little.


JDs4Me - what about adding something like a Firemouth or a Sajica to go with the JD in there?

Wills

 

[JDs4me]

Your in good hands with Goat

Just to chip in with the JD - they are over rated aggression wise often quite reclusive, but I wouldnt risk them with small fish but large disk characins or roundish barbs would be good.

I think the larger synos you are listing sound good and the spotted Dora will work out fine, from what I know they dont grow as large as the humbug cats and stay around 5 inches or so but they get big fat bellies. But are not very active.

Perhaps the widespread Hoplo (I forget the proper name but you know the one I mean Steve) as they cross into JD territory a little.


JDs4Me - what about adding something like a Firemouth or a Sajica to go with the JD in there?

Wills

Funny you should mention a Firemouth - the LFS has 6 Dempseys and a Firemouth in one small tank at the moment; the Firemouth being the boss from what I've seen, though they are possibly a little stressed out in that two-footer! so a Firemouth will be OK with a Dempsey then as they mature?

Defo getting the S.angelica; beautiful fish - the LFS says he might be able to supply, if not TF2YD or similar...a S.eupterus too; not going for polli/nigriventris or the others as Goat mentions they are social and I don't want to overcrowd, and are somewhat smaller. I read that S.nigrita is on the Red List, which puts me off having one if the demand for them creates a problem in the wild?

A.sajica looks lovely! and from the same region as the JD

Yeah, great to have Goat watching over my selection, and others more knowledgeable than me, like yourself!!

So, as a stocking plan for my 260 litre...1 x JD, 1 x A.sajica, 1 x S.angelica, 1 x S. eupterus and possibly 1 x M.picta... hows that sound then??!

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Wills will be able to offer you great advice on viable cichlid combos, but I will stay away from that "minefield."

As regards the catfish... The more aggressive Synodontis I've listed (euptera/nigrita/angelica) are not only territorial with their own species, but also other synodontis in general, besides being able to look after themselves around many (but not all) hobby cichlids. In a 4-footer, I would personally advise you to choose one and one only. Angelica are fabulous looking catfish, but they would make mince meat out of my syno collection (1x 25cm S. notata; 1x 18cm S. decora; 2x 12cm S. brichardi; 4x 7-11cm S. flavitaeniata; 1x 9cm S. congica; 12x 3-7cm S. nigriventris; 1x 4cm Microsynodontis polli; 10x 2-3cm M. sp.1)

As regards "Hoplo Catfish", they are quite social and excellently armoured. The common name is horribly ambiguous in identifying specific species, but three more common ones that spring to my mind are Megalechis thoracata; Megalechis picta (has a definite black vertical bar in the middle of their tail fin); Callichthys callichthys (a bit longer/chunkier with dinosaur-like look to them). If you were to choose one species of these, I'd go for at least a group of four (ideally with only one male, as males can get a bit nasty with each other). I have four M. thoracata, they are such bold/friendly fish, I've felt really sorry for them in the last couple of weeks because my newish ~5cm Steatocranus tinanti male has been nipping their fins and whiskers for no good reason (doing a big fish juggle tomorrow that will deal with this). By luck I only have one male and I'm toying with maybe trying to source two more females.

 

[JDs4me]

Ideally I would like 4-5 cats in there; of the Hoplos you mention the M. thoracata look great (u-tube) so then I'm back to considering if they will be OK with the JD and A sajica (might not be large enough?)...if Wills misses this open query maybe I will PM him if thats considered OK?

The syno's in your collection; are they all together in one big tank or have you split them? I assume they are less aggressive...I'm beginning to fully appreciate the relevence of your signature, and wondering how I will fit all the tanks I'm going to need into my front room

If the M. thoracata are compatible then I will go with 4-5 ;if not I will go for the S. angelica!

(does everyone find it so hard to choose - I seem to change my mind on an hourly basis so I am sticking with the above!)

again, thanks for the advice

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

At the moment I have my notata; decora; 2 brichardi in my 5x2x2. All the other synos are in my 48x12x15, but the "flavs" will probably end up in the 5-footer too, which has more current. In my lot, the brichardi are the most aggressive by a fraction, but they are well behaved around the bigger synos (I plan to add another few this year to spread their conspecific aggression better).

I went round in circles trying to decide what to put in my Rio240 two years ago (Rainbowfish/oddballs/Tanganyikan) before ending up with riverine fish from Africa and Asia, which then resulted in the 5x2x2 tank to give them more room and MTS spread from there (6 tanks on the go right now)! In hindsight, I wish I had looked into Tangs more closely rather than just what I saw locally in the fish stores, there really is a cracking choice of fish from this lake with tanks 4-foot and longer (and "Kiriyama" often makes me regret my choice, but one day I shall have a Tanganyikan tank of some description, even if its a mini-community in my 620T) and their water requirement match up well to our hard tap water on the south coast.

 

[JDs4me]

indeed not enough tanks! thanks for your input...