Mbuna Malawi Set Up

[star4]

I am not looking to set up a malawi tank, however I have found a tank for sale but it comes with a full mbuna malawi set up. Question is if I did buy the tank, I obviously have to get it back home, do these guys need specific water as I cannot transport all the water back with them. many thanks

 

[nmonks]

Of course mbuna need special water conditions! Hard, basic, not too warm, well-oxygenated, near-zero nitrate level.

If you're asking can you adapt them from one set of conditions at that place to similar if not identical conditions in another aquarium, then yes, you can do that, provided the new water conditions are those outlined above.

By default, I wouldn't trust anyone selling a collection of mixed mbuna unless I knew them personally. Too easy to end up with a bunch of hybrids. Plus, their combination of species could be really crummy, hence their willingness to sell them. Mbuna aren't compatible with almost anything else, and in fact mbuna mix badly with most other Lake Malawi cichlids (haplochromines, Aulonocara, etc.).

Cheers, Neale

 

[star4]

Thanks I think I will leave it then I was only after the tank, was hoping to bring it back and set it back up and sell on the fish and I know absolutely nothing about malawi.

 

[HappyGeorge]

Always happy to learn something new but I had never seen it said anywhere that Malawi need Nitrate close to zero? Mine is 20ppm out of the tap but my Lab Corelius, Lab Perlmutts and Cynotilapia Afra all seem more than happy to breed in it and have just sold my 2nd batch of 25, 2 month old fry back to my LFS. They also share the tank with some Haps in the tank as do many peoples Mbuna , and from what I have read and my limited experience, aside from issues around different feeding requirements they seem to live happily together, lets face it they do share habitat in the wild so given a big enough tank, enough rocks for the mbuna, and enough open swimming areas for the Haps no reason they shouldnt be happy. Hell my Livingstoni even lies in the sand by the juves hiding places and ambushes the baby mbuna, and it doesn't get much more natural than that.

 

[nmonks]

Always happy to learn something new but I had never seen it said anywhere that Malawi need Nitrate close to zero?

Try reading Loiselle, Konings, really any of the serious cichlid writers. All will tell you the lower the nitrate, the healthier the cichlids will be. Certainly I always make the point that above 20 mg/l, cichlids become more prone to Hexamita infections. In this sense they resemble many marine fish, to which cichlids are of course far more closely related than they are to catfish, characins or the other major freshwater groups.

They also share the tank with some Haps in the tank as do many peoples Mbuna , and from what I have read and my limited experience, aside from issues around different feeding requirements they seem to live happily together, lets face it they do share habitat in the wild so given a big enough tank, enough rocks for the mbuna, and enough open swimming areas for the Haps no reason they shouldnt be happy.

In fact mbuna don't cohabit with Aulonocara, haplochromines or tilapiines. Mbuna means "rockfish", and they are strongly associated with rocky habitats. The other cichlids are mostly found in the transitional zone, the vegetated areas, the open sand areas, or open water at various depths. Remember, these lakes are gigantic, and trying to compare them to even a big aquarium is pointless. Indeed, they don't have much in common with most other lakes, let alone aquaria. Much better to consider them for what they are -- inland seas -- with the mbuna being like the fish that live among corals, while the equivalents to Aulonocara, haplochromines and tilapiines would all occupy other niches in the sea.

Cheers, Neale

 

[HappyGeorge]

Thanks, I did know about the formation of the Lake and the origins of its fish and also the fact that much of its volume is uninhabited due to the huge amount of sediment at depth, I know recent studies have uncovered a previously undiscovered catfish but most of its depth is pretty sparsely populated, and never having seen anything contrary or dived there myself I wasn't aware that they didn't come across each other in the wild, but they do share the same habitat, so the argument that they aren't compatible due to the fact they don't have the same requirements, or have needs that can't be met in a relatively small aquarium (besides food) is mute. Obviously I knew that my aquarium wasn't a comparison size wise for the worlds eight largest lake! Although I do have the worlds seventh largest living room and the worlds ninth largest sarcasm gland.
In the end to be honest I just stand by the fact that I have a tank with 4 breeding pairs, I've never encouraged it as the females stay in the main tank while holding and spit in there. Then the fry survive on what they scavenge, no specific food, they wouldn't get a specially formulated diet in the wild. There is no fighting as there are lots of rocks and lots of open swimming for the Haps, my Moori eats protein flakes from my hand and my Venustus is getting braver, and my Livingstoni gets his meat protein from eating fry. It really doesn't matter what the theory is or what anyone has written, if it works it works. I can't see the value in telling someone they need close to zero nitate, when 20ppm is obviously quite acceptable. Hell 150 years ago we were all going to die from asphyxiation if we travelled at more than 5 mph on a train.

 

[nmonks]

There's a very good reason I routinely write that Rift Valley cichlids be kept at nitrate levels as low as possible, and preferably below 20 mg/l -- the advice I give has to be as close to 100% reliable as possible. I make a living from writing for fishkeeping publishers, and that means if I say something that's not true, my reputation diminishes. Any advice I give has to be as trustworthy as possible. When I make mistakes, or serious experts tell me I'm wrong, I have to make sure that I change my advice in future.

Of course, I don't doubt some people maintain hardy Malawian cichlids at 50 mg/l or higher. But that won't work for all Malawian cichlids, and it'll cause real problems for Tanganyikans. If you understand that nitrate is particularly toxic to cichlids, and you work to lower nitrate levels as far as practical, then you are maximising your chances of successfully keeping the widest range of cichlids.

The analogy with people being scared about travelling faster than a horse is misleading. Nitrate toxicity to cichlids isn't a myth or illusion, and in fact the negative effects of nitrate on fish generally have been widely studied under laboratory conditions. I suggest you spend a little time reading the science; in some cases, concentrations below 5 mg/l can have demonstrable effects on things like adult fertility and the growth of fry. So the idea nitrate is "harmless" as stated in many aquarium books is highly misleading.

Nitrate is also a good proxy for water quality, specifically, water changes. People who maintain aquaria with low nitrate levels are likely doing regular water changes. As a consequence, their fish are more likely to remain healthy. There appears to be connection between infrequent water changes and the occurrence of Hexamita infections and hole-in-the-head disease. Nine times out of ten, when you see cichlids with Hexamita, they're in an aquarium that hasn't had regular water changes.

Cheers, Neale

I can't see the value in telling someone they need close to zero nitate, when 20ppm is obviously quite acceptable. Hell 150 years ago we were all going to die from asphyxiation if we travelled at more than 5 mph on a train.

 

[africanjake]

Couldnt agree with you more happygeorge, have been keeping mbuna and haps for 10 years and 20ppm is fine.

The water need not be the same as lake malawi as none of the fish that we buy have ever seen it. They have been bread and raised in tanks that do not have zero nitrate.

 

[Realtree]

Couldnt agree with you more happygeorge, have been keeping mbuna and haps for 10 years and 20ppm is fine.

The water need not be the same as lake malawi as none of the fish that we buy have ever seen it. They have been bread and raised in tanks that do not have zero nitrate.

Got to raise a point here
Some of my mbuna are wild caught from lake Malawi and many mbuna "geeks" like me own wild caught fish. In our cases we attempt to recreate the exact natural enviroment and water chemistry which without doubt is better for the fish involved