Marine Setup Check

[mirage47]

Well after about 3 months of researching reading on here and bugging my lfs, which happens to be petco, I think that I am finally ready to start preparing my first aquarium. Now I really don't have any backround in fish as this will be my first one. Basically I don't want to go with a freshwater system even for the learning aspects because I just don't find anything cool about them and I don't want to waste my money and time on something I just didn't want in the first place.

So having said that I have been reading on here for some time and have hopefully picked up what I think is a pretty good understanding of what I would like and what I need. Also I just realized a couple weeks ago that Fosters & Smith has a retail store only about 45 min north of where I am so I shouldn't have to worry too much about getting what I need as they said they can get it for me and I can go up there and pick it up. Also I was up there and talked to some of the people in their retail store about what I needed and setup wise and such. So they have been very heplful and said when I am ready I can go up there and they will talk over what I decide to do before I buy anything.

Anyways this is what I am looking to do:
All-Glass 90 Gal predrilled tank 48x18x24
Megaflow overflow accessory kit
Marineland Tidepool II Bio-Wheel Filtration Module
Quiet One Pump 3000 780gph
Turboflotor 1000 Multi
Visi Therm Stealth Heater 250 watt
2x AquaClear Powerhead Model 70 400gph each
Nova Extreme T-5 with Lunar Lights 48 inch 216 watts total
2x slimpaq 460nm Actinic t-5 bulbs
2x 10000k t-5 HO bulbs
90 lbs fiji liverock
testing kits-not sure what kinds
Substrate- not sure what yet
Salt- not sure whats kind yet
Water- they said to use tap from my faucet-I have a pur filter on it and then declorinator added
Cabinet and Hood-I have friend thats a carpenter who can make me one using designs I found on the internet. I just can't see spending close to 500 on one from the stores when he can do the same for like 200. The only thing that worries me is getting the Hood right so I have enough room
Versa-Top glass top
Thermometer-don't know what kind yet
Refractometer-don't know what kind yet


This is basically the same system they have running in there retail store where they have a bunch of corals and stuff on display so thats what they suggested I go with.

Now I have questions on what I can put in it. I understand what a fish only and a fish with live rock system is but when is it classified as a reef. I like the corals and what not but I also like certain fish as well. Obviously my daughter wants the Nemo setup so a clown or 2 and a blue Tang and prolly a yellow tang. I really would love to have a lionfish and from what I read on liveaquaria It would be ok in my size tank but I read on here that this tank would be too small. I would also like to put in a large Angelfish type. Well anyways these are some of the things I would like but I know I can't have everything.

So give me your thoughts on what I have here and let me know if you see anything wrong. Your suggestions would be most helpful as I would like to start on this in the next couple months.

 

[Lynden]

A dwarf lion wouldnt be too big. I have heard of dwarf lions in a 20 gallon. As for the angel, you couldnt get a big one, because full-grown pomacanthids usually need at least 150 gallons. Dwarf lions, tend to eat shrimps and other inverts, so you would have to be cautious with a lion in a reef. Also, they can put a powerful sting into your skin, so it could be dangerous if your daughter inserted a finger into the tank one day.

Also, you have listed an overflow box but not a sump/refugium. Where will the overflowing water go?

Make sure that you be extra careful, since this is your first fish tank. Your are definetly right about the fact that freshwater can be boring. Once you go marine, you never go back.

 

[mirage47]

There is no sump or refugium as I was told I really didn't have to have one as everything can be hooked up to the overflow box or stored inside of it. As for my daughter I don't think she would touch anything other then maybe going underneath and playing around in there.

The large angels would be cool to have and some of them on liveaquaria say they can be in a smaller tank as they get to be like a foot long but that still seems to small for these. And I remember reading somewhere that the lionfish gets like a foot long too but they get like 18 inches when they are fanned out. The only thing is that what kind of problems am I going to have with the other fish if I were to get a lionfish?

 

[superman]

The purpose of a predrilled tank is to have a sump underneath the tank to house your heaters and filtration. I woul ditch the biowheel, I'd go with at least 6 maxijet 1200s powerheads (the best affordable powerhead available in my opinion) if powerheads are what you want to use to creat most of your flow.
RO water is the only way to go, tap water simply has too many nitrates, and phosphates in it. Using tap water will only hamper the overall health of the system, nuisance algae, stunted growth of corals... the list goes on. I used tap water as well when I first started, I would never go back to tap water again, too many unknowns in it.

 

[mirage47]

Thanks for the reply...

What I have listed was the same system that they have in the retail shop at Fosters & Smith so I was just going by what they said as I was looking at about the same size and such. That was just their opinion of what I needed and I came here because I wanted to get as many opinions as I could on what I should get so I can make some sort of an educated decision. So that you for your suggestions as I can use as many as I can get.

I understand the reason for using the RO water. Totally makes sence. As for the overflow, I thought it was like a sump/filter because it holds all the stuff I don't want to be seen in it just prolly on a smaller scale then a sump. So having said that I have a pretty good idea what a sump is just don't really know what a refugium is. Also if I am not using the tidepool for filtration am I just using the LR and skimmer? If I do need some more filtration could you please suggest basically what I would need (tank size, type of filtration, what kind of filter media).

Any other suggestions on any of the other products I have listed or missing would be most helpful.

Basically I would like to put together a system that really doesn't need to be upgraded because I didn't get something that I should have.

As for the tank size, the 90gal I would like already has my wife freaking out so I really can't go any bigger and I don't think I woiuld be happy with anything smaller.

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[superman]

You really don't need much of anything else for filtration other than a good skimmer and a large load of live rock. Some of the most successful systems use only skimmers and liverock as their basic filtration. DO NOT SKIMP ON THE SKIMMER! Make sure that you are getting a good quality skimmer. I personally recommend ASM skimmers to anyone that is trying to save some money but still get a good skimmer. When looking at the ASM skimmers make sure that you oversize the skimmer (referring to the "ratings" of each skimmer model) the opinion is that ASM over rates their skimmers. If you go with ASM then put the gate valve mod on the output of the skimmer (you can look this up online and you'll be able to find pics)

You can always put a canister filter on the tank and polish the water with some filter floss, but I don't think this is very necessary...

If you still feel that you want to go with more filtration or push things towards better water clarity, then get a small ozone unit, this will make your water so crystal clear that you won't believe the difference you see in just hours.

 

[mirage47]

OK I get the whole thing about not needing any extra filtration except for the extra LR. My question now is how big of a sump would I need min. I assume I could go bigger if I wanted but just would like to know the min and then go from there. Also could the canister filter with the floss be added at a later time if I decided I needed it or is that something that sould get plumbed in right away? Same thing with the ozone maker and also where do you get these from. I was looking to buy everything from Fosters & Smith/Liveaquaria.com and I didn't find any on there.

Do you see a problem with the Turboflotor 1000 multi, it says for up to 250 gal tanks or do you think I need something bigger?

Next question is how much LR would I be looking at now. Was planning on 90lbs but I would assume more with the sump?

Do I need to use all LR for the sump right away or could I use the base rock type method as I was looking at spending about 1500 or so on this so if I need to cut any corners would this be the place because I think the better equipment(skimmer and pumps) I buy right away the less problems I should have later?

What kind of substrate do you think would work best here?

Also when I was looking at that overflow I assumed that it connected from the tank to the box to be filtered. Since I would be taking out the overflow does the pipe from the tank connect to anything on the sump or does it just kinda flow into it?

You said I should be using 6 maxijet 1200 powerheads and thats gonna be moving 1770 gph which is almost 20x my aquarium volume. Isn't that too much if I would put in a lionfish or don't I need to worry about that? Also where does the water come from for the powerheads are you just circulating the water in the tank or are you pulling from the sump? I am assuming just from the tank because I would have a pump in the sump for pumping water from the sum into the tank.

And yes I am asking alot of questions simply because I was planning for the other system that I had talked to the store about and I don't totally understand how some of this is gonna fit together.

Thanks again for your help and as usual any suggestions would be most helpful.

 

[superman]

For the money you are going to spend on the turboflotor multi you should just go ahead and buy and ASM g-1x or G-2. They are awesome skimmers and much better than a turboflotor, I bought my ASM G-4X from Championlighting, here is a link http/www.championlighting.com/home.php?cat=515
They have very good customer service (ask to talk to Perry) I buy almost all of my goods from them. don't pay much attention to skimmer ratings when comparing skimmers, they are broad generalizations at best.

You can add the canister filter later on, My bet is that you never will need one with a good skimmer, and possibly a small ozone unit. I would look at the Red Sea ozonizer deluxe models, they are great, they are an all in one unit, and will connect directly to the venturi of your ASM skimmer. FOr your tank you could easily get away with a small 50 mg unit. Just do some searching on google, you will possibly be better off trying to get a used one, since the new ones go for over $300 on championlighting.com

Why are you removing your overflow? Please explain why you want to do this and maybe we can succeed in convincing you that you should leave it alone. The overflow tower is the prefilter for your water that is going to the sump, it simply keeps fish and anything large from accidentally getting tossed into the sump.

As far as sump minimum size I would go with a 15 gallon as your minimum, with a 30 gallon long tank as an ideal for a 90 gallon tank.

The 6 maxijet powerheads is just fine for a 90 gallon, even if you are keeping a lionfish (which is probably going to be pretty cramped in a 90 gallon unless it is one of the very small breeds)

As far as substrate I would go with 80 percent fine aragonite sand, with 20 percent being crushed coral. That way if you get a jawfish or other burrowing fish it will have some stuff to build a burrow.

The exact weight of rock is going to depend on the type, if you are going with a bunch of dense base rock to start out with, you will need a lot to make things look good.

 

[RoyalGrammaPrincessHannah]

Aquarium Pharmeceuticals works just fine, but there is a better brand that im sure you will hear about.
If you are looking at bottom-dwelling burrowing fish like jawfish{the yellowheads are really cute} you will want medium {coarseness} substrate. But otherwise, large surface area for the nitrosomas and nitrobacters is good, so coarse works for that.
Ive heard nothing but great things about Instant Ocean Salt, but I use Coralife and Kent works well too.
RO water isnt completely necessary, but is the best thing you can do as far as the quality. My tap is great, nothing i have a test kit for, including ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, calcium, or phosphates exists in it.
Any stick-on thermometer will be just fine, just make sure they all match the same temp in the room so u dont get a wierd 1!
I really like my canister filter and my protein skimmer together. The filter removes more of the stuff at the bottom, the heavier stuff that may never get to the top to be skimmed out, while I also cant imagine how gross my fish would feel if all the stuff the skimmer gets out was still in there. I feel that seeing how much both do for my system, I think they are both necessary.
Some species of clowns are more territorial than others, so u will want to make sure that if there is a size difference, that the littler one has time to get adapted before adding the bigger, maybe more aggressive 1. Or, if you are introducing two of the same species, which is not reccomended they should be added simultaneously.
The tangs should be fine if added together.
Lionfish are cool, but you wouldnt want to keep them with these others you have picked out because they can be aggressive and they are venomous. My friend got stung by one the other day and wasnt feeling too great the next day, so she had to get a tetanus shot.
Large angels are by far my favorite fish in the sea, followed by the pigmys, but they will eat coral. They simply cannot be trusted. Only some are small enough for your size of tank though, few if any, actually. You will have to make the decision of a reef, or angels.

 

[superman]

Aquarium Pharmeceuticals works just fine, but there is a better brand that im sure you will hear about.
If you are looking at bottom-dwelling burrowing fish like jawfish{the yellowheads are really cute} you will want medium {coarseness} substrate. But otherwise, large surface area for the nitrosomas and nitrobacters is good, so coarse works for that.
Ive heard nothing but great things about Instant Ocean Salt, but I use Coralife and Kent works well too.
RO water isnt completely necessary, but is the best thing you can do as far as the quality. My tap is great, nothing i have a test kit for, including ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, calcium, or phosphates exists in it.
Any stick-on thermometer will be just fine, just make sure they all match the same temp in the room so u dont get a wierd 1!
I really like my canister filter and my protein skimmer together. The filter removes more of the stuff at the bottom, the heavier stuff that may never get to the top to be skimmed out, while I also cant imagine how gross my fish would feel if all the stuff the skimmer gets out was still in there. I feel that seeing how much both do for my system, I think they are both necessary.
Some species of clowns are more territorial than others, so u will want to make sure that if there is a size difference, that the littler one has time to get adapted before adding the bigger, maybe more aggressive 1. Or, if you are introducing two of the same species, which is not reccomended they should be added simultaneously.
The tangs should be fine if added together.
Lionfish are cool, but you wouldnt want to keep them with these others you have picked out because they can be aggressive and they are venomous. My friend got stung by one the other day and wasnt feeling too great the next day, so she had to get a tetanus shot.
Large angels are by far my favorite fish in the sea, followed by the pigmys, but they will eat coral. They simply cannot be trusted. Only some are small enough for your size of tank though, few if any, actually. You will have to make the decision of a reef, or angels.

I'd be pretty hesitant to put tangs in a tank smaller than a 6 foot tank, they will be stressed once they grow since they are straight line swimmers.

 

[mirage47]

I do believe I mistated some things when I said overflow I meant this:


Tidepool

Which was incorrect as I assume this would be my overflow:

megaflow overflow kit

First of all I was under the impression that the tidepool was a filter sump all in one although I could be wrong.

I have no intention of getting rid of the overflow kit.

What I was asking is that with the tidepool it looks like the overflow is actually connected to the tidepool box. In a sump would it just dump into the sump without being connected?

 

[ostrow]

I agree on ditching the biowheel system. Worse than useless, could cause nitrate spikes esp if no refugium.

Get as large a sump as you can: min 20Gal I would say.

I also agree on the Skimmer. ASM G2 will cost less, work better, be quiter and far easier to "dial in".

You definitely need an RO/DI filter.

Are you planning on having corals? If so, then:

As for test kits: first, get a refractometer to test salinity. Stay away from the plastic swing-arms.

For pH get a monitor (pricey) controller (very pricey) or hand-held digital tester (not bad at all).

Salifert test kits are by far the easiest and best for testing Calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium.

Lots of different ideas on salt. Stay away, though, from Oceanic as it causes terrible problems in many systems, including mine. The Shedd Aquarium in Chicago uses Instant Ocean, so hard to argue there. But I like Tropic Marin when I can get it at an affordable price.

If you want SPS corals, I'd strongly consider MH lighting from the get-go, as you'll only be switching later. Make sure you get at least one, maybe two cooling fans.

 

[steelhealr]

Just some confirmatory comments:
1) agree with aragonite....wouldn't use crushed coral unless you use it in a deeper layer...the coarseness can collect detritus

2) RO/DI water only. If you have gone this far to do such a great job researching and planning this setup, and you are, why compromise your investment with anything less than pure water? It's not worth cutting corners IMO.

3) Refractometer....Drs. FS have one for $40....a steal.

4) Agree ditch the biowheel

5) With a 90 gallon tank, I'd think higher in the amount of LR used. At 1- 1 1/2lbs per gallon, you could easily use 100lbs or a little more. You could definitely add a layer of base rock with this.

6) Three of the most popular salts are Instant Ocean, Oceanic and Tropic Marin. Personally, I use Reef Crystals after trying the latter two and I'm very happy with it.

It's always good to see when future salts workup their plan. Welcome aboard. SH

 

[BabySealClubber]

If you still feel that you want to go with more filtration or push things towards better water clarity, then get a small ozone unit, this will make your water so crystal clear that you won't believe the difference you see in just hours.

Two thumbs way up for ozone!!! Since I've been injecting ozone my fish have been floating in air.

Same thing with the ozone maker and also where do you get these from. I was looking to buy everything from Fosters & Smith/Liveaquaria.com and I didn't find any on there.

http/www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...=1&N=2004&Nty=1

Be sure to also get the 500g air dryer.

 

[mirage47]

ok guys some of the things you guys are suggesting are going to put me way over budget so I can do one of 3 things:

1. Wait until I can save enough to get all the "extras" that will make life easy. Doing this I might never see it getting done as I'm sure I would always want something more.

2. Decrease the size of the setup in general. I don't think I want to do this as a 90 gal seemed to be a pretty stable setup for a beginner.

3. Start with the required parts and add all the extras over time.


The next question is what is a sump. I have been looking at several different sump setups and it seems like everyone has made something that suits them as they know what they are doing. The only thing is that they all look like they have different functions. Any assistance would be nice on this.

I was looking at a 30 gal boxed setup from the lfs. I can pick it up for like 100-120 and it has a little filter, lights, heater, basically all the little crap you need for a FW setup. Question here is can I use this for the sump and would I be able to use the filter and just put the floss in it as was suggested before. Do I need to partition the tank. Ahhh I just need to be pointed in some sort of direction on this sump thing.

Thanks again for you help.