Marine Section

[andywg]

Thoughts?

Sadly for many on the forum, I have.

Since you responded to my last question so nicely, I thought I would reciprocate.

6) I like the 'thanks' system Ben. I have frequently brought up the issue in mod section of having separate and distinct 'avatars' or icons for those members who are dedicated helpers, posters, etc. I will bring your suggestion up in our mod forum

Given how many angst ridden teenagers frequent TFF who struggle with accepting criticism or challenges to their ideas I think that a thanks or reputation system will become a badge people will aspire to without proper consideration of what it really entails and will become upset if they do not get greens when they think they should, not to mention the ability for a clique to form and people to appear better purely because they have a lot of friends on here.

In more seriousness, the only place I have ever seen a rep model (green and red blobs for good and bad) work well is at Yorkshire Divers where most people are mature enough not to care and many of the more knowledgeable and helpful people actual court the red blobs and people intentionally start a ruck on a Friday just for something to do. The ever-present kid gloves for TFF in being family friendly stifles a lot of creativeness and humour and ends up with people wandering off elsewhere to places that where you can enjoy yourself and not always just talk about fish. If that is not fixed then the forum will never manage to retain characters. No characters leads to a dry board and not somewhere to spend any length of time.

9) Generally, there have usually been 2 salt mods active. Initially it was Navarre and Great Lakes. GL disappeared. When Navarre slowed up we added Ski. We'll see how it goes but I know there are some rumblings for a new mod here.

This is superfluous, what the forum needs is someone with obvious experience and knowledge of marine fish keeping. Mod does not equal good posts. You only have to review some of the FW mods to see that. A mod is more of a janitor than an expert, required to clean up the forum and ensure things are in the right place. Is there a plethora of posts waiting days in the wrong place or pr0n hanging around for days?

8) We have a tank of the month AND a newsletter for the entire forum. I will work with the writers to ensure that the salts get some presence there. One way to show off your corals would be to contribute a photo to the coral index in the TFF Index. Although it is NOT an area for conversation, per se, we mods will add 1, 2 or 3 pix to an index post if they are great shots or offer different views.

And they will almost always be shots of nano reefs or the occasional larger reef. These are all well and nice, but the problem is that the userbase (especially in marines) is so small that it is very rare that people will have the more interesting fish, and less so that there will be interesting shots of them. Honestly, how often will you get shots of the more interesting and varied fish?

 

[seffieuk]

Sorry SH, off topic

Andy, did you see the frogfish they had at Pets at home lately, a lovely little pink and white - oh if only I had a spare tank

And did you find a home for your porky, or did you keep him?

Its good to see you back posting in the marine section

Seffie x

nearly forgot - SH got a few hours over the weekend to do some work if you wish, what would you like me to do?

 

[steelhealr]

If you'd like...whether between you or Nemo....the two suggestions were a marine calculator section and organizing the marine journals into size/gallons/liters.

I've read andy's post and take it seriously. andy and I go way back (yeah...we've sparred in the past but we have a mutual respect and ..and... ).(?I think, LOLOLOL) I would like to see his presence here more too.

I am pushing for a general chat section to return. SH

 

[steelhealr]

Oh..and andy....as for the pix...we have that here too. I post here..to show...but DO comment that these are PAST pics from my tank. We HAVE that capability too.

SH

 

[bunjiweb]

6) I like the 'thanks' system Ben. I have frequently brought up the issue in mod section of having separate and distinct 'avatars' or icons for those members who are dedicated helpers, posters, etc. I will bring your suggestion up in our mod forum

Given how many angst ridden teenagers frequent TFF who struggle with accepting criticism or challenges to their ideas I think that a thanks or reputation system will become a badge people will aspire to without proper consideration of what it really entails and will become upset if they do not get greens when they think they should, not to mention the ability for a clique to form and people to appear better purely because they have a lot of friends on here.

In more seriousness, the only place I have ever seen a rep model (green and red blobs for good and bad) work well is at Yorkshire Divers where most people are mature enough not to care and many of the more knowledgeable and helpful people actual court the red blobs and people intentionally start a ruck on a Friday just for something to do. The ever-present kid gloves for TFF in being family friendly stifles a lot of creativeness and humour and ends up with people wandering off elsewhere to places that where you can enjoy yourself and not always just talk about fish. If that is not fixed then the forum will never manage to retain characters. No characters leads to a dry board and not somewhere to spend any length of time.

I agree that in some cases it could lead to people spamming or upset users, but although I've heard this argument thrown up before I've never seen it actually happens.

You have to differentiate "Thanks" from "Reputation", A user isn't going to be thanked just for the sake of it, They'd have to contribute effectively to receive it. To start with some close moderation may be required but once under way I have seen it become a very effective system.

I personally frequent some computer hardware related forums - http/forums.hexus.net . Here they employ a thanks system that has really cut down the am mount of spammy threads and opened the door to much more balanced discussion but also means that users actively strive to help others, which inevitably leads to them being thanked for it.

Ben

 

[andywg]

I agree that in some cases it could lead to people spamming or upset users, but although I've heard this argument thrown up before I've never seen it actually happens.

I am almost certain it will form cliques. You only have to see the hero worship that often follows people who post a lot, even if what they post is just regurgitation of the first hit on google here. Then, when you try and counter the information they provide you get people claiming that person is right because they have helped lots of people.

You have to differentiate "Thanks" from "Reputation", A user isn't going to be thanked just for the sake of it, They'd have to contribute effectively to receive it. To start with some close moderation may be required but once under way I have seen it become a very effective system.

The two will go hand in hand unless there is absolutely no way for people to see how often someone is thanked (most of the systems I see show how often someone has been thanked). If you cannot see how often someone has been thanked you have basically recreated the ability to PM someone thanks or post a grateful reply.

Here is the one thing I seldom see answered, what do you really gain from having a thanks system? How does the forum really benefit? Those people who are genuinely looking for help almost always thank the replies in the thread. Does it make the people more interesting, or the answers any more accurate? Or will it give rise to a case of someone waiting for the advice they wanted from the start and just thanking the person that most agrees with them.

I personally frequent some computer hardware related forums - http/forums.hexus.net . Here they employ a thanks system that has really cut down the am mount of spammy threads and opened the door to much more balanced discussion but also means that users actively strive to help others, which inevitably leads to them being thanked for it.

I am not sure how someone saying thanks will cut down on spam. Maybe my understanding of the definition of spam is not the same is yours. What sort of threads have been cut down purely by having the ability to say thanks? And I don't see how discussion will be balanced because of the ability to be thanked. Are there really people who say to themselves "I think that advice is wrong, but I will not post anything because there is no specific button for the OP to press to thank me"? If someone truly wants to help they will. If they only want to help because they will be thanked then you are into the realms of people trying to do it for the wrong reasons (not that I am claiming all advice and help should be entirely altruistic) and you increase the chance of them misunderstanding points or overstretching themselves in the hope of getting one more thanks.


To repeat my reservations on a thanks system, I cannot see any tangible gains for the: the OP, they are still uncertain of what is the best advice; the replier, other than the knowledge that someone they will almost certainly never meet is thankful enough for the advice given that they can click a button but are not thankful enough to post a reply or send a message; the forum, it will create another way other than posts to try and judge who is right rather than on the quality of their posts, not to mention it will make those in the busier parts of the forum appear more kind as there is more chance to be thanked.


I am more than happy to change my mind, but I simply cannot see any real benefits, especially not when we are mostly talking here about retaining those marine members with a higher than average level of experience.

 

[Donya]

for some reason I missed it

Me too. I never seem to notice these things until they're already off and running away.

The ever-present kid gloves for TFF in being family friendly stifles a lot of creativeness and humour and ends up with people wandering off elsewhere to places that where you can enjoy yourself and not always just talk about fish.

At the risk of stepping into a topic I probably wouldn't normally, I have to admit that I prefer forums that are more down-to-business. I may have mentioned it at some point in the past (feels a bit deja-vu-ish...sorry I'm repeating myself), but I mod a snail forum that had a general chat section for a while; it was fun sometimes, but got shut down after people demonstrated repeatedly that they couldn't keep it under control even from an adult-only standpoint. I've always appreciated the lack of that sort of thing here. Of course, that said, I'm well aware that I'm not everyone, and I do come from a department where a "party" involves everyone staring at the wall in silence and then running away with food as soon as the cake gets cut.




Anyway, I'll get back to ideas. I don't suppose there's enough invert/coral activity to warrant splitting coelenterates from crustaceans/mollusks/everything else I guess? I'm mainly thinking from a browsing perspective, since I haven't actually sat down to see how many posts would fall into each...perhaps its just my search feature laziness showing lol.

 

[steelhealr]

Sometimes, I think the only way to know..is to test something.

I could probably have a marine classified section started, but, do our members truly feel it would be best separated from the regular classified? Should it be under marine or a subforum in classifed? SH

 

[ben1987]

Sometimes, I think the only way to know..is to test something.

I could probably have a marine classified section started, but, do our members truly feel it would be best separated from the regular classified? Should it be under marine or a subforum in classifed? SH

i think it should and i think it should be in the marine section. I dont even bother listing my stuff or looking - equipment or livestock, because the ratio of saltwater/freshwater means that it disapears so quickly and most on here tend to go elsewhere for classifieds. It may not get much traffic, but atleast when we see a new post we know its relevent to our hobby and might stumble across a bargain

 

[steelhealr]

Fair enough. Taking some steps to get us back on track:

1) I am pinning two open threads in the marine section for use by seffieUK and Nemo if they want:

• links to divide the marine journals into categories...if you have the energy, you can even divide into types, eg pico, 5-10, 10-20, 20-30; Nano Cube, Orca, BioOrb, etc
• links for resource threads that need updating

2) Requesting a marine classifed section

3) I am working on/supporting a general chat section

4) I am trying to contact older members (if their emails still work)

Work in progress.

SH

 

[seffieuk]

I will start at the weekend

Nemo, shall we split the sizes between us,, so we dont duplicate work?

Small - Pico and Nano 10 gallons - 36 g
Medium 37g - 74g
Large 75g - 200g
Massive 201 + gallons

Imo we dont really need to split them any further? What do you think guys?

Seffie x

 

[ben1987]

sounds good to me seffie, you could maybe even skip one and have

Nano <30 gallons
Medium 31-100 gallons
Large 101 + gallons

not like we have tons of them anyways!

anyone else think a new member help team would be good?

 

[seffieuk]

Agree Ben I also wondered that

which ones do you want to take nemo, or is there another way we can split them so we dont end up doing the same ones?

And yes Ben, I completely agree with you again a new members help team would be a good idea.

I also agree with AndyW about the Thanks nominations/scores - could become devisive, a thanks in the thread is enough for me

And again agree with both Ski and Andy, a general chat area would be great

We requested a Marine classified some months ago - so certainly agree with this one and as Ben says, it might not get a lot posted in to start with but at least when something was posted we would see it and maybe grab ourselves a bargain whilst helping out the seller.

Ben, you dont fancy doing the marine calculator bit do you? I havent got a clue

Seffie x

 

[ben1987]

I could do formula for working stuff out.

but i have no idea how to actually program one

 

[steelhealr]

Your input matters. Looks like we will be approved for a separate forum, marine classified section. If approved, I will set it up for all here. I have recommended a similar format....equipment, livestock, macroalgae, corals, exchange, wanted. The pinned coral exchange pin will then be released. Not sure if it will be subdivided into UK, US/Canada, other since we are small, but, perhaps may be better to start out the right way.

I am also pushing a general chat along with other mods. One member suggested a divided chat area, sorta like adults in one area, minors in another area. Might allow some people to loosen their belts a bit but, as you can guess, it will be heavily modded....looser...but modded. It's been initially greeted positively.

I was disappointed on returning at how much our forum has slid....TFF a bit as well. I intend to work with everyone to build it back up with the work of all here and the mods as well.

SH