Marble Mollies Curved Tail, Dying

agulliver

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OK a brief intro. I have been keeping coldwater fish with great success for over 20 years (I can breed Koi which live for at least 10 years, will let you know when the die!). I work in the Science department of a school and was asked last year to set up three tanks for the department, two of which are tropical. I read two books (one old, one new) on tropical aquaria to try to get a good start as I was previously only familiar with goldfish and koi.

The problem tank is a 60 litre one, pH of the water is 6.8, no measurable ammonia, nitrates or nitrites. In the lab we have measuring equipment far more sensitive than the shop we bought the fish from. Tank temperature is usually 25 degrees Centirgrade. Originally (April 2008) I introduced three marble mollies (2F, 1M) into the tank and four neon tetras. This month I added two angel fish. Good two inches of gravel, three different species of plant/weed, internal filter which is cleaned every 7-10 days. Half water change performed roughly every 2-3 weeks. Fed on either Aquarian Tropical Fish Flakes or King British Tropical Fish Flakes. They also tend to nip at the plants.

The problem is with the offspring of the mollies. I expect a lot of inbreeding goes on before we even buy our fish, so my original 3 fish may well have been siblings to begin with. All the offspring seem to start off fine. Some later develop what can only be described as a bent tail. They find it impossible to swim in a controlled manner and may spiral about corkscrew fashion. At this point the usually friendly adult fish begin to nip at them, which causes the "sick" fish to dart about like they are mad.

I've tried isolating the "sick" fish into separate smaller tank, where they seem much less stressed but don't seem to eat. The affected fish (about 20% of the total offspring) have all died to date. Just yesterday I separated two more fish from the main tank, and at least they seem to feed. The larger of these only developed this illness when he was already 2/3 the size of the adults, and he bizarrely stands on his tail much of the time. Balance/equilibrium problems seem to affect some of the sick fishes, and two appear to have had one bulbous eye. I recall one with a head too big for its body

The three original adult mollies seem fine, as are the four tetra and (so far) the angel fish. I am theorising genetic defects, but why would they appear some weeks/months after birth?

Has anyone seen this before? Does it ring any bells?
 
Hi. I've never experienced anything like this before but perhaps you could swap the male molly with someone to stop the inbreeding and genetic defects.
 
Hi. I've never experienced anything like this before but perhaps you could swap the male molly with someone to stop the inbreeding and genetic defects.

Good idea, that would also demonstrate if it is a genetic problem or some water/tank issue I am unaware of.

I will try to take a photo today or Monday.
 
As mollies usually prefer brackish water, most people add aquarium salt to their tank. Is this something you already do?

The large bulbous eye that you mentioned on a couple of the fish sounds like the disease called Popeye. There are medications you can use to treat popeye (I have used MYXAZIN with great success).

The bent spines can be caused by a bacterial infection (esp. fish TB).

Athena
 
As mollies usually prefer brackish water, most people add aquarium salt to their tank. Is this something you already do?

The large bulbous eye that you mentioned on a couple of the fish sounds like the disease called Popeye. There are medications you can use to treat popeye (I have used MYXAZIN with great success).

The bent spines can be caused by a bacterial infection (esp. fish TB).

Athena

We're not using salt in the water, the advice from the shop (which seems a high quality place) and books I read did not mention this. Would some aquarium salt be OK given the other fish in the tank? I have some aquarium salt to hand as I keep hermit crabs at home. What concentration would you recommend?

Wouldn't a bacterial infection spread through the tank? The baffling thing is this just affects some of the offspring of the Mollies. The Tetras in the tank are unaffected (thus far) and it doesn't spread in the way I would expect an infectious disease to do.

Thanks for the advice :)
 
Wild mollies need salt in their water; captive bred mollies could benefit from some (though not always a necessity.)

Just to clarify a couple of points: when you clean the filter, are you using tap water or tank water? And it sounds strange to me that the tank isn't producing nitrates...from my understanding of the nitrogen cycle, nitrates are a sign that there is nitrifying bacteria at work. Personally I'd try with a decent quality aquarium testing kit - I appreciate that your existing methods should work, but something there doesn't sound right - and I know that the better quality aquarium testing kits do work. API and nutrafin both do good quality liquid drop based testing kits...you could even take a sample of the water into your LFS and get them to test it - much cheaper. If you do get them to give you the readings though, rather than just saying, 'its fine.'
 
Thanks tenohfive, I've taken a sample to the shop twice. First off they said they'd probably refuse to sell me fish until they'd seen a sample. Which is actually reassuring that they care about what they sell. Second time I took some in after about 3 months. Though I have to say they just said "everything's fine" I did look at their results...I think they were using an API kit.

I certainly wasn't aware that mollies required any salt, what concentration do I need and will it be OK for the other fish in there (neon tetras and angel fish)? I can solve that quickly as I already have some API aquarium salt at home as I keep hermit crabs, who need salt water to bathe.

When I clean the filter I use tap water, its what I've been doing with coldwater fish for 20 years and the books on tropicals didn't advise otherwise. I'll check for nitrates again on Monday, you're not wrong about the nitrogen cycle. I could clean the filter with tank water if that would be better?
 
I think cleaning the filter with tap water exposes the bacterial colonies to chlorine which will kill them off, so the filter then ha to re-cycle and mature again. Cleaning it in tank water or freshly dechlorinated tap water shouldnt harm the bacteria
 
I think cleaning the filter with tap water exposes the bacterial colonies to chlorine which will kill them off, so the filter then ha to re-cycle and mature again. Cleaning it in tank water or freshly dechlorinated tap water shouldnt harm the bacteria

Our water is not significantly chlorinated, though I can try cleaning with tank water. Odd though that it is only affecting this one tank and only the offspring of the mollies.

Can someone please advise me on the amount of aquarium salt appropriate and if it will be OK to add salt given that there are also neon tetras and angel fish in the tank?
 
Unfortunately tetras do not like salt, or so I have been previously advised. I do not use salt in my community tank and I haven't had an problems..........so far!!! :unsure:
 
Unfortunately tetras do not like salt, or so I have been previously advised. I do not use salt in my community tank and I haven't had an problems..........so far!!! :unsure:

Thanks for the info.

I've not added any salt yet thankfully.

Just had three more mollies (offspring of the ones in the 60l tank) die after a spell in a 40l tank which has been running for 9 months and had neon tetras in it. But these mollies showed no signs of illness, and lived in the 40l tank apparently happily for three weeks before suddenly dying overnight Friday. There's definately an issue with the mollies, though so far it is just the offspring, the original three I bought 9 months ago seem to be fine, happy and healthy.
 
Here's an update, I have the two sick mollies in a small "hospital tank" and added some salt to it. I'm hoping it will help them. They are less stressed than when they were in the main tank but still behaving oddly.

The larger one (photo attached, if I get it right!) has a bent tail and often "sits" vertically. He's definately taking food though. The smaller one has one bulbous eye but his tail is no longer bent. I think and has lost virtually all control when he swims. He corkscrews through the water. When I added the salt water (pre-dissolved in 2 litres that I added to their tank) it seemed to frighten him and he darted in his distressing corkscrew fashion, hitting the sides of the tank for about 20 seconds. Most of the time he sits respiring quickly on the gravel. I assume he's eating because he's been in there two weeks and hasn't died.

sick_molly.JPG
 
The poor fish in the photo died today...so I guess its not a salt issue. I am back to thinking it must be genetic as every other fish (mollies, tetra, angel fish) has been fine...except for the young mollies.

THanks to everyone who gave advice.
 

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