Map Turtle

[chestnutree]

Hi,

I purchased a baby map turtle yesterday which I love. He's happily living in a 3ft tank at the moment.

The shop said to keep the water temp just above tropical fish temperatures (internet sites I have seen suggest 26c)

The shop suggested a basking lamp is not required. I still wanted to double check and found sites on the net suggesting that although it is not 100% needed, it is recommended. As it is recommended I would rather do the best thing and get one.

So advice. What type of bulb is best? I’ve found some bulb holders on eBay as I imagine a household light holder would not be great in a humid and damp environment. if I’m wrong then please correct me and I’ll save some money I noticed none on eBay have a thermostat to turn the lamp off when it reaches a certain temp. Is this required? or is it just set to come on for so long each day? I don't want to cook the poor thing.

So all advice regarding the lamp would be great, but as this is my 1st and I’m a beginner, all advice full stop regarding looking after these lovely creatures is welcomed I don't want to harm him in any way and want him to have the best life, hence why I’m trying to do my research on the net right now.

Thanks very much.

Nick

 

[simonfabris]

Hi,

I purchased a baby map turtle yesterday which I love. He's happily living in a 3ft tank at the moment.

The shop said to keep the water temp just above tropical fish temperatures (internet sites I have seen suggest 26c)

The shop suggested a basking lamp is not required. I still wanted to double check and found sites on the net suggesting that although it is not 100% needed, it is recommended. As it is recommended I would rather do the best thing and get one.

So advice. What type of bulb is best? I’ve found some bulb holders on eBay as I imagine a household light holder would not be great in a humid and damp environment. if I’m wrong then please correct me and I’ll save some money I noticed none on eBay have a thermostat to turn the lamp off when it reaches a certain temp. Is this required? or is it just set to come on for so long each day? I don't want to cook the poor thing.

So all advice regarding the lamp would be great, but as this is my 1st and I’m a beginner, all advice full stop regarding looking after these lovely creatures is welcomed I don't want to harm him in any way and want him to have the best life, hence why I’m trying to do my research on the net right now.

Thanks very much.

Nick

Although not essential the basking lamp/spot is highly recommended, what is essential is a UVB 5/10 bulb, you can encompass both by getting a Mercury Vapor bulb although these can be rather expensive, alternatively you could just get yourself a good UVB5/10 bulb ie Exo tera tropical/desert bulb. If you do choose to have a basking light the thermostat is not essential but i would certainly recommend it!! habistat dimming thermostats are by far the best in my opinion, although others are available. As for bulb housing, ceramic bulb holders are best for the types of bulbs you will need, they dont go brittle under high temperatures unlike your everyday lamp holder.
just to note, for map turtles good filtration is essential, they are not hardy unlike sliders or musk turtles, I am running 2 filters on my tank 1 external and 1 internal!! Also I would try not to let the basking area get to humid, this can lead to problems. Leave the lid off of your aquarium to allow plenty of ventilation! most of all enjoy your turtles!!

 

[Asp]

Map turtle care 101.

Firstly, congratulations - Maps are very nice little turtles! If you want a definitive ID as to the subspecies then please post a photo showing the side of the head - this is by far the easiest way to tell them apart- and I'll be able to tell you.

If you are keeping them indoors it is not essential to have a heated tank (though you can, it doesn't make a great deal of difference) - most Map turtles are native to river systems in N. America, mostly draining into the gulf of mexico. Quite a lot of river systems have their own subspecies (ie. Graptemys pseudogeographica kohnii is largely restricted to the mississippi). These rivers are not tropical, but they are not particularly cold either and as such an unheated indoor setup is fine if you live in a relatively mild area (I'm in london - they're fine here).

However, being river turtles they are extremely strong swimmers (far more so than sliders, typically pond turtles) and will benefit from as large a tank as you can provide - there are lots of rules of thumb about minimum tank sizes, but go as big as you can. Using pumps or filters to form a slight current is also a good idea.

UV lighting is not optional, they have to have it to grow healthily - any bulb that is reptile specific is good, and there are a lot of them out there.

A heat lamp and basking area is also a requirement, not so much to provide warmth but to allow them to easily shed the scutes of their shells. If they are not capeable of doing this because 1) they cannot properly dry out or 2) it is too humid then this will lead to a build up of unshed scutes that can cause serious fungal infections, shell rot and other pretty nasty conditions.

Also on the question of humidity, frankly the best thing to do is simply not have a lid on the tank at all - If the lighting system is built in to the lid I would remove the opening section entirely.

It is best not to have any kind of substrate at all - the ingestion of sand or gravel can cause terminal impaction and its a #28### to clean (more on this later). If you want to add some more interest to the tank stick to rocks and things way too big to eat.

Filtration - a tricky subject. Turtles make loads of waste, particularly when they get a bit bigger. It is largely futile to treat the water in the same way as you would a fish tank. Firstly know that they are a lot more tollerant than fish - keeping the water clean is a lot more important than worrying about PH, nitrates, cycling or any such thing. Get a very simple external canister filter and fill it with sponge and nothing else. This is purely to remove solid matter. Wash it out in tap water every couple of weeks. remove excess waste from the bottom periodically using a syphon or turkey baster (a turtle keeper's best friend, your turkey baster...). Every few months change the water completely. Sounds a pain, but in the long run this is much, much easier than trying to keep the water up to standard through delicate filtration and partial water changes! you can buy 'terrapin water freshner' which is basically a bacteria boost, it can help a bit - when they first invented it I took to using it all the time, now I rarely bother.

Periodically chucking in a few bunches of elodea is a must. Its cheap, helps the water quality, provides some cover and something to play with and also a nice nutritious snack.

It also helps if you feed them outside of the tank. They require water to eat, but a simple plastic box half filled with water makes a great feeding box.

In terms of foods, the usual frozen and live stuff is the best, but keep an eye on the levels of protein as too much in a diet can be very detrimental to health. Tetra reptomin is very good, but shouldn't be a whole diet. Vegetable basic cichlid formula such as Hikari pellets are also quite good as a supliment, as are dried foods such as gammarus or bloodworm. Be careful not to over feed.

I think that that covers most of the basics, I hope you find that helpful. Any questions feel free to ask.

 

[chestnutree]

Hi,

Thanks for the very detailed replies. i'll reply more later but im in the middle of switching fish between tanks and setting up the bigger tank for the turtle.

I've already purchased some gravel type stuff which was reccomended by my LFS to use with turtles. It says on the bag for terrariums. This will be ok to use won't it?

The tank im putting them into has a florecent light.600mm x 38mm (24" x 1.5"), can i buy a direct replacement uv light for this? any reccomendations? i've seen uv-a, uvb etc and im confused!

Do you know if anywhere selling the basking lamps with a thermostat at a good price or offer at the moment? a website or something would be great for me to order online

If i don't have a thoermostat, what wattage bulb would you advise and how long to have it on for each day?

Many thanks

 

[Asp]

Personally I just wouldn't put any gravel in. If its relatively large (I.e. not remotely swallowable) and is nicely rounded then its probably ok.

I use a cheap clip on spotlight from Ikea for a heat lamp for most of my guys, they cost me about £3 each. Two or three hours a day is plenty, a timer switch is your friend here. Reptiglo tubes tend to be pretty good for the UV.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

http/www.lampspecs.co.uk/Light-Bulbs-Tubes/Aquatic-Reptile-Pet-Care should be right up there in terms of pricing for bulbs!

This is one area of pet keeping that has changed dramatically since I had my two Red-Ear Terrapins in the mid 80s, affordable UV lighting. Back in the late 70s, ant eggs were the commonly recommended diet, until so many poor youngsters suffered horrible side-effects from the ant acid...

 

[chestnutree]

i was thinking the same about a lamp with timer. A straight 3 hours a day, or half hour intervals for a total 3 hours or something like that?

Maybe i should take this gravel back then? The setup in the shop was a little misleading. i just thought if i sloped the gravel high on one side to get out of the water instead of just rocks....a bit like how they would get our of a river or the sea? but if you both recommend not to then i suppose i should take the advice from the more experience people thats what i'm here for,lol

When you talk about current and water movement.....the filter is quite strong, but i also have a spare powerhead. should i use that or would it be too much?

Again i will be taking the gravel back.... but what happens in a few years if i hopefully have a pregnant turtle? i heard they burry the eggs in the sand/gravel?

Also how old are they when they start breeding?

 

[Asp]

No, stick with the filter on its own whilst they're small, But keep the powerhead in reserve for the next setup when they're a bit bigger.

Three hours is a guess to be honest. Turtles are individuals, use a bit of trial and error and see how long the little guy likes to bask.

Don't worry about breeding just yet - you're not going to get a breeding setup in a 3ft tank anyway! Maps will reach sexual maturity at anything from 4 years upwards, but really its more about size. Male maps are TINY compared to the females - an adult female might be four times the size of an adult male, but it depends on the species (again - pictures!).

Adult maps are specialist mollusc eaters, so conditioning on snails and shellfish is good for encouraging breeding.

For what its worth a sand/soil area is best for egg laying - If you don't want to re-build your nice setup then a flowerpot full up to the brim is a good egg laying medium - you just have to make sure that the eggs are not going to be submerged as this will kill them off before they get a chance to develop.

 

[chestnutree]

Ah ok, cool. once im done setting up i'll get some pics on.took me forever to catch the fish...now emptying water and then will be transfering. gna be ages until i get the little guy in his bigger tank. looks like a long night,lol.

Just had a look at the tubes. i can't seem to see what the difference is between the retilight or the reptilegrow. They both give the exact same description. which do i go for? do they both light up the tank?

Am i being dum here, or am i right in thinkin uv is bad for humans and our eyesight? Are these lights harmfull to us?

 

[Asp]

Ah ok, cool. once im done setting up i'll get some pics on.took me forever to catch the fish...now emptying water and then will be transfering. gna be ages until i get the little guy in his bigger tank. looks like a long night,lol.

Been there man, been there...

 

[simonfabris]

Hi,

Thanks for the very detailed replies. i'll reply more later but im in the middle of switching fish between tanks and setting up the bigger tank for the turtle.

I've already purchased some gravel type stuff which was reccomended by my LFS to use with turtles. It says on the bag for terrariums. This will be ok to use won't it?

The tank im putting them into has a florecent light.600mm x 38mm (24" x 1.5"), can i buy a direct replacement uv light for this? any reccomendations? i've seen uv-a, uvb etc and im confused!

Do you know if anywhere selling the basking lamps with a thermostat at a good price or offer at the moment? a website or something would be great for me to order online

If i don't have a thoermostat, what wattage bulb would you advise and how long to have it on for each day?

Many thanks

You have the gravel already? Personnaly I have a bare bottom tank, it's much easier to keep clean, and no chance of impaction. Therefor I personnaly would not recommend it. I did have some heavy stones at one time dotted around the bottom of my tank, problem there is the bigger your turts get the stronger they get, I know someone who's turtles smashed the tank...

Re the UV yes you can get a UVB to replace your existing tube, they are usually around £20-£25 and need replaceing every 6 months to a year. I always use exo-tera for my lighting, I have clamp lamps with cerramic holders, but they do the same in tubing. as i said in the earlier post UVB 5(tropical) or UVB 10(desert) are perfect. You should be able to pick these up from your local pet shop/reptile specialist.

Regarding your basking light, I tend to use ceramic heat emitters at around 100watts. They dont produce any visible light but produce a lot of heat, you can also use infra red, day glow, sun glow or moon glow lights at 100watts, it just boils down to personnal choice. I also have a Habbistat Dimming thermostat, these in my opinion are the best. Because they are dimming thermostats they dont turn the bulb on and off(which of course greatly shortens the life of the bulb). Habistat have many others in this range inlcuding pulse proportional, and your standard on off stat. There are others out there so shop around. what you will need for this is a clamp lamp, they come in several different sizes and are ideal for clamping to the side of your aquarium. Your best bet for deals on all of this is ebay.. I dont know anywhere that has any offers. The clamp lamp(excludes the bulb) retails around £19-£30, the Habistat Dimming Thermostat is around £60. but you can get them second hand or some good deals on ebay. the bulbs can also be pricey depending what you get, you can of course just go for a high wattage standard tungsten bulb untill you have the money for everything else. The obvious problem with having a basking light over an aquarium is perspiration. It is advised to do a partial water change once a week say 20% however, with persperation on top you will inevitably be putting more water in than you take out.

If you dont have a thermostat, I would suggest the 100watt heat emitter, but put it on for 30 minute intervals over the course of 3 hours at the height of the day say between 11am and 2pm.

UV in certain forms is bad for humans, this kind is ok, you dont get nearly as much form these lights as you would from the sun, infact if you can get an out door enclosure for sunny days, 1 hours natural unfiltered sunlight is better for your turtles than 1 week under the uvb bulbs.

 

[chestnutree]

Ok.

Thanks again for a detailed response

i'll be replacing the aquarium light then for the uvb type. Can the uv light be used to much? i have my fish light on for 8 hours a day, would that be suitable?

Looks like i will have to stick to the heat lamp and timer for now, probably until next payday as those dimming thermostats seem quite expensive when you take into account buying everything else aswel at the moment. But it is on the shopping list! and already have a couple on watch on eBay

I'll take the gravel back and maybe buy a few big stones to line the bottom but not pile them up? this way there won't be any accidents,lol.

 

[Asp]

A cheap 40w clip on spot light, at about 8" from the basking area will work almost as well as the expensive ceramic and thermostat option. You can happily stick with it for the time being - its more important to spend money on the UV at the moment.

Then you can pick up all the bits for the flash heat lamp as and when you can find bargains!

Lighting the tank for 8 hours a day is absolutely fine.


Also, I should have said that when they're little maps can be frighteningly good climbers, so make sure your basking area is free from things like nice ornamental hanging plants and such the like...

 

[chestnutree]

Cool, advice taken

Well i've been shopping around and found this at a good price to use as a basking lamp.....:
160W ES E27 PowerSun Mercury Vapour UV Lamps .BNIB

I've already purchased the E27 fitting lamp holder. 160w isn't too much is it? just wanted to check this was suitable before purchasing. Still a little pricey for a bulb but on a very good offer compared to the rest!!!

Only downside is it says it can't be used with a dimmer. So i may scrap that idea and see how we get on with a timer for now if you guys/gals can give me the thumbs up before purchasing?

ps: this will be in addition to the uvb florecent tube used to light the tank up for around 8 hours a day. 2 uv lamps together like this won't be too much uv will it?

Thanks

 

[simonfabris]

Cool, advice taken

Well i've been shopping around and found this at a good price to use as a basking lamp.....:
160W ES E27 PowerSun Mercury Vapour UV Lamps .BNIB

I've already purchased the E27 fitting lamp holder. 160w isn't too much is it? just wanted to check this was suitable before purchasing. Still a little pricey for a bulb but on a very good offer compared to the rest!!!

Only downside is it says it can't be used with a dimmer. So i may scrap that idea and see how we get on with a timer for now if you guys/gals can give me the thumbs up before purchasing?

ps: this will be in addition to the uvb florecent tube used to light the tank up for around 8 hours a day. 2 uv lamps together like this won't be too much uv will it?

Thanks

That sounds perfect, and no 2 UVB bulbs wont be too much, as I said above they don't give off as much UVB as natural unfiltered sunlight so should be good to go!!