Many Questions

[Scrufdog]

So I was given a 29 gallon tank and stand by a friend who has 'moved on' from the hobby. I've decided to start out with a mix of GloFish, regular Zebra Danios, some Neon Tetras, and 3 Otto Cats when algae shows up. I'll have some plants in there, looking at hornwort, java moss, anacharis and maybe an orchid lily or 2.

I have ordered an Eheim 2234 canister filter, submersible 150w heater, air pump with check valve for a couple bubblers, decor stuff, gravel, flourite, etc.

So with the questions...

1. When the previous owner cleaned the tank, she used Clorox bathroom shower and tile cleaner stuff on it. When I got he tank it smelled like the cleaner, so I rinsed it well, the Windex'd it, then rinsed it again, then filled it with water and let it sit for a day to try and 'soak up' any residue. It's now been emptied and rinsed, but I can still smell a pinch of the cleaner. Once the filter gets here, should I just fill and setup as normal and let it run with the filter for a couple days to get rid of anything left over?

2. I got some Tetra AquaSafe for the water. I tested my tap water last night and everything is in great shape. I plan on using the conditioner anyway to make sure, but now I'm not sure. You see, I also bought some Plant Gro Iron enriched plant fertilizer for the plants I'll have. The Tetra water conditioner says it removes copper, iron and zinc...... the Plant Gro adds copper, iron and zinc, as well as other stuff. How to deal with this situation? Add the conditioner first, and let it do its thing for a couple days before adding some Plant Gro, then add the plants?

3. Once the tank is cycled, how early can I add the Otto Cats? If there is no algae for them, will they be ok with algae pellets until some shows up, if it does?

4. I keep seeing some filter pickups with surface suckers on them, as well as the deep input. Can someone explain the purpose of this, and might I need one?

I think thats it for now...

Thanks

 

[fatheadminnow]

First of all, to TFF!

1.To clean the tank, keep on scrubbing it with hot water until the smell is gone, or very un-noticeable. You do not want to use any cleaning supplants to aid in the cleaning process, as they could ruin your biological filtration and harm/kill the fish. You can add 1 part bleach to 10 parts water to clean the tank, or vinegar and a plastic scrubber usually work well. Just make sure to double up on de-chlorinator when filling the tank, (Tetra AquaSafe). If you do decide to use the bleach, try to get the cheapest bleach you can, as this will lack in other additives.

2.With a fully cycled tank, nitrates are going to be present, and that is one thing that plants will use a lot of, nitrates. You do want to add a water conditioner to your tank water, in your case it is Tetra AquaSafe, when filling the tank or doing water changes. Some conditioners have trace minerals/other stuff in them that is good for the fish, and it is good to replenish the water with them when doing your weekly water changes. And like you stated, it removes chlorine and heavy metals like copper, iron and zinc, I am unsure about this part to your question, you make a very good point. Unless you can find another water conditioner that does not remove those metals, I would just dose the water the correct amount according to the provided instructions. E.X. when taking 15% of the water out to do a water change, you obviously then need to add that much water back to the tank. So lets say 15% in your case is 5 gallons. Well, just add the correct amount of Tetra AquaSafe for 5 gallons prior to putting the water in the tank. (Fill up a bucket of the correct amount of water that is at the same temperature of your tank water, then add the Tetra AquaSafe to that water, then add the water to the tank). Also after doing the water change and putting the de-chlorinated water back into your tank, dose the correct amount of fertilizer for the plants. You do not want to dose very heavily all at one time when adding fertilizers, instead, you want to dose a little lighter, like once every 3 or so days out of the week. This will ensure that there are plenty of minerals in the water for the plants to utilize.

3.First of all, you might not even get any algae in your tank, which would be a good thing for you because algae can be a pain in the butt to get rid of sometimes. Don't be surprised if you get algae during your fishless cycle. Algae needs 2 things to grow, light and ammonia, and since there is going to be access ammonia in your water form the cycle, you might have a minor algae break out, (not uncommon). This minor outbreak will usually clear up after a couple of weeks after the cycle is completed, as your filter will be more mature and able to process ammonia into nitrite before any algae can utilize and grow.
-But other than that, unless Otto can't go into a freshly cycled tank (someone please clarify), you can add them right away. And with no algae present, I would just feed them algae wafers.

4.As far as your filter goes, you want to produce a mini water current in your tank. That way water leaving your filter follows a sort of pattern in your tank back to the filter inlet. This can be done by the use of power heads. Another good reason to have a current in your tank is because it will help prevent algae growth. If the ammonia produced form your fishes waste just sits in one spot for a long time before being sucked into your filter, odds are that the ammonia is going to be in the tank long enough for algae to use, and therefore grow.
-Other than that, I am not too sure about the different positions of the filters inlet. I like to have mine right about mid level, maybe a little lower in my tank.
-But in your case and the type of filter you have, you want the inlet about half under the water surface, and then have the return hose of the filter near the top of the water surface. Try to position the return part of the filter so that is creates surface agitation in the water. Surface agitation in going to ensure a healthy amount of O2 (oxygen) in the water for your fish, and it will keep a steady 6-8 ppm of Co2, which your plants will utilize for photosynthesis.

Hope this helps out a little.

Like I said, other members with more experience than me will come on and give you more advice.

Once again, welcome to TFF!

-FHM

 

[Scrufdog]

good stuff.

The question about the water conditioner was more about using the plant stuff i have too. The Plant Gro Fertilizer basically adds what the AquaSafe takes out. So how should I go about using the 2?

 

[fatheadminnow]

Add the correct amount of conditioner to the water before you add it your tank when doing weekly water changes.

Then I would dose the correct amount of fertilizer. You are going to be dosing fertilizer in an amount that the conditioner that you have added will not be enough to remove all of the fertilizer.

Then I would also dose fertilizer in the correct amount, like 3 days out of the week. You do not want to dose a lot right away, but in little increments throughout the week.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Hi and welcome to TFF!

1) I agree with FHM in the post above: as a beginner you are worrying about the iron etc too much. It would be interesting to know all the chem details but from a practical standpoint you should just consider the two things to be separate issues. Always, as a beginner, condition your water, as you're doing. Consider your ferts to be a separate thing and don't not do them because of wondering about the conditioner.

2) otocinclus sp. actually are a sensitive fish that we usually recommend not putting into a tank until some months after its been fully cycled, at least this is the traditional advice. There's controversey about it and some feel a well-cycled tank should be fine for them and then there's even Dave Spencer on the other extreme who likes to add them right off as a fish-in cycle fish in a planted tank startup! One of the extra problems with them is its believed they're often starved (from lack of algae and veggies) by the time they get to you. They are very small and need food on a pretty constant basis.

3) You are a newcomer so, not to insult you if you're already an experienced fishkeeper, but cycling is a "big deal" and its something the members here are good at helping with. Often newcomers coming in are making wrong assumptions about it from prior mis-information, so be sure to read up and ask questions on the topic of the Nitrogen Cycle and fishless cycling

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Scrufdog]

I've been reading a lot about cycling on multiple sites all over the place. I'm a good study when I decide to learn a new hobby.

Thanks for the advice.

I got the tank up and running right now, been going for about 2 hours. Bottom layer of flourite and black gravel. Then all the air hose run around, then the top layer of about 20 lbs of dark blue mix, 8 lbs of black, and 2 lbs of light green. Couple Decors in there now, need at least one more. 1 medium air stone on each end, and a smaller stone under a fake log thing that slowly fills it inside, then release some bubbles about once a minute.

My tank setup is a little different than 'the norm'. The back of the tank is actually one of the short sides. I'm using it as an end for a couch, on the other side of the couch is a door. So basically, you open the door and the tank is right there coming out from the wall, and the couch is on the other side.

Tests show the water is in good shape, at least I have good tap water. 0 nitrites and ammonia. Everything else is right where it should be. I'm gonna start the cycle on Saturday.

Should plants be added before the cycle starts, during or after.... or does it really matter?

 

[fatheadminnow]

It does not really matter when you add plants, its really your preference.

Some people will say wait, while others will say add them at the beginning.

Just keep in mind that plants will "absorb" ammonia and nitrates.

If I did it over again, I would probably add plants in the beginning, that way the water chemistry wont change that much when adding plants after the cycle is complete.

-FHM

 

[Scrufdog]

good point, I'll add plants in the beginning then. I seem to remember that bubbles will go away eventually, but they arent a big deal otherwise...

Here's what I got so far. I tried to get some pics with the lunar lights on, but I have them set for very low light and my camera couldnt get a good lock on them.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Looking really nice!

Yes, the bubbles will eventually go away.

When water is in your water pipes in your house, the oxygen is compressed together very tightly, and when you relieve the pressure in your pipes by turning the faucet on, the oxygen is going to expand because the atmospheric pressure is less than the pressure in the water pipes.

So the oxygen expands, and will stick to everything, but they will eventually diffuse and disappear in a couple of days.

-FHM

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum ScrufDog. As FHM was saying earlier, good water circulation can help keep algae buildups under control. The air stones you have going will give you some good localized circulation and may make things like power heads unnecessary. The plants can go in at any time but when you post questions about your cycle, be sure to mention that you have them and how densely planted they are. Plants can definitely make a difference in the ammonia and nitrates in a tank and will confuse people trying to help if you keep them a secret. If you hold off planting the tank, you will not need to run with your tank lights on and may avoid algae problems completely. I love my plants so I can never seem to wait for them. I just accept the algae. Waterdrop is on the money, as always, with his advice. Right now you need to get your head around the entire cycling process. Once you really understand that process, you will find it easy to choose the right path in most circumstances.

 

[Scrufdog]

looking good so far. Picked up 3 bunches of green cabomba, a red melon sword, and one bunch of anacharis. Also got some red crystal rocks. The dewd at the LFS hooked me up with some gravel and water from one of the well established tanks to put in my filter to maybe bump up the cycle process. I changed the bubbler under the branch clump thing so it bubbles all the time. Then I planted everything. I may plant some more stuff in there, towards the back, maybe something short.

 

[Scrufdog]

welp, I should be cycled soon. My friend has a well established 29g tall, he gave me his power filter insert tonight. Dropped into the bottom tray on my canister filter. Couple days I should be pretty good I figure.

 

[waterdrop]

welp, I should be cycled soon. My friend has a well established 29g tall, he gave me his power filter insert tonight. Dropped into the bottom tray on my canister filter. Couple days I should be pretty good I figure.

Sounds good! Always determine whether your fishless cycle has completed successfully by testing. You need to be able to add 5ppm ammonia and then have both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) go all the way down to a clear Zero reading right at 12 hours later. Then you need to watch it do this for a week (we call that the "qualifying week.") If you do this there's almost zero chance of experiencing a "mini-cycle" when you put your first fish in (and your fish should show how good this water is by their alertness, color and sheer friskyness!)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

It sounds like you are on your way to a nicely cloned filter. That is how I always do mine because I am not a patient person. As WD said, be sure that you are fully cycled before chancing any fish. If anything goes wrong once you have fish in, the entire process of saving the fish can be stressful.