Malawi Blue Dolphin Acting Up

[doresy]

Posted this in discussions but received no replies (not like the 'old days') so I'll try here..........
 
 
Ok, so I will try to include every thing so please read all the way through if answering my plight.
 
Very mature (5 years) Tanganyikan Cichlid set-up (240lts, 4 foot tank)
 
Totally constant 'double zero' with 40ppm nitrate. 1-2 weekly, 20-30% water changes.
 
All fish (bar one) absolutely healthy with some regularly spawning. (stock as per signature)
 
Right, so to my problem fish. I have one Malawi (Blue Dolphin) that I have had since a tiddler and now is nearly five inches. Forseveral months now he regularly swoops down sideways into the substrate which is now progressing to swiping the rocks and 3D background. Other behaviour is short bursts of gaping while swimming backwards then darting off shaking his head. So far I have treated the tank for ICH, twice (following exact instructions) but no change to his behaviour. He shows no other visible signs or behaviour and eats well.
 
No other fish in the tank have any symptoms of any kind which is strange as it's been months since this all started.
 
I am looking at the offending fish now and all is normal but then all of a sudden the behaviour starts and lasts for 30 seconds or so.
 
Any informed opinions?

 

[mark4785]

For how long has your nitrate been at 40 ppm and did the odd behaviour show if/when the nitrate level was below 40 ppm? How about your ammonia, nitrite, GH, KH and PH levels? Unless you have used inorganic fertiliser to achieve a level of 40 ppm of nitrate, I would be tempted to believe that the waste levels in the aquarium are very high and there is chance some ammonia or nitrite spike has occurred which would explain the gaping (fish will do this to flush out the gills if anything, including parasites, ammonia or nitrite are irritating them). I think the fact the "fish is shaking its head" is further reinforcement that some discomfort is occurring near the gills and head.
 
With regards to the "swiping the rocks" behaviour, this is known as flashing and is typical sign that the fish is trying to dislodge attached protozoan parasites on the skin (most commonly skin flukes) or to relieve skin irritation caused by high ammonia/nitrite levels.
 
 
- I would recommend doing a full water parameter test (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, KH and GH) to check if any of those values are inappropriate for the Malawi, with the first 2 parameters needing to be 0ppm for any fish.
- If the water results are fine (be sure to publish them here regardless) I would first try to get a skin swab taken from the fish so that you can take it to a local fish store for them to inspect to look for any visible parasites.
- If they find gill/body flukes I would advice you dose the tank with Kusuri Wormer Plus. If they find something else I would recommend looking for an appropriate medication to use from the Waterlife range.

 

[doresy]

Hi and thanks for your reply.
 
I requested help as I cannot understand why this fish has been displaying these symptoms for a considerable amount of time without any sign of relief from ICH medication or of cross infection to any other fish within the tank.
 
As stated my ammonia/nitrite levels have been zero like for years as I do pay special attention to those levels and cannot see why I should ever have got a spike. (I am a keeper of Cichlids for some 10 years or more and this is a first problem for me)
 
The nitrate of 40 has also been constant as it comes out of the tap at 40!
 
Ph is around 8 constant and he has been in that since fry.
 
KH and Gh is unknown but the water is pretty hard around here (which led me to my choice of fish) and the tank is full of rock and coral gravel.
 
At present I have started yet another treatment for ICH so once that has run it's course I will look into gill treatments.
 

 

[snazy]

Why are you treating for Ich? There's just no point as you would have seen spots by now, plus you already did 2 treatments.
Flashing can be caused by many things, certainly irritants in the water, low undetectable ammonia levels can do that too.  He just maybe more sensitive than other fish, since no other fish does this as you say. I can't see where he would have got flukes too from if you haven't added any fish but it could be some type of parasite that has affected only him as healthy fish fight it off.
Maybe put him in quarantine tank and treat with antiparasitic meds.
Other than that, try lots of water changes, like daily ones for a week and see if he stops.

 

[doresy]

Why are you treating for Ich? There's just no point as you would have seen spots by now, plus you already did 2 treatments.
Flashing can be caused by many things, certainly irritants in the water, low undetectable ammonia levels can do that too.  He just maybe more sensitive than other fish, since no other fish does this as you say. I can't see where he would have got flukes too from if you haven't added any fish but it could be some type of parasite that has affected only him as healthy fish fight it off.
Maybe put him in quarantine tank and treat with antiparasitic meds.
Other than that, try lots of water changes, like daily ones for a week and see if he stops.

Hi, I'm treating for Ich because after asking for suggestions on here several times without a single reply (despite colossal amount of views) all the research I found available on Google pointed to this course of action. However, confident, after 10 successful years of Cichlid keeping, that my water is kept in good condition and that my only other tank is currently stocked as a nursery tank I have no option other than to complete my latest Ich treatment course. 
Daily water changes are out due to work commitments but I will certainly up them for a while. 
 
Meanwhile if anyone near Southampton with a spare tank would like to take it on as he is otherwise a wonderful specimen!
 

 

[mark4785]

Hi and thanks for your reply.
 
I requested help as I cannot understand why this fish has been displaying these symptoms for a considerable amount of time without any sign of relief from ICH medication or of cross infection to any other fish within the tank.
 
As stated my ammonia/nitrite levels have been zero like for years as I do pay special attention to those levels and cannot see why I should ever have got a spike. (I am a keeper of Cichlids for some 10 years or more and this is a first problem for me)
 
The nitrate of 40 has also been constant as it comes out of the tap at 40!
 
Ph is around 8 constant and he has been in that since fry.
 
KH and Gh is unknown but the water is pretty hard around here (which led me to my choice of fish) and the tank is full of rock and coral gravel.
 
At present I have started yet another treatment for ICH so once that has run it's course I will look into gill treatments.

 
I would do an up-to-date ammonia, nitrite, GH and KH test and post the results here. You may want to speak with your water company to ask what they know the nitrate level to be. Nitrate test kits are VERY inaccurate so it could be nitrate toxicity, which a nitrate test kit will not so easily reveal, causing the fishes symptoms.
 
As said by Snazy, there really isn't a need to treat for ICH as there would be clear distinct salt-sized white spots on the fish and other tank inhabitants if ICH was dominating the aquarium.
 
If you want to go about treating an aquarium for flashing, gaping and the swimming backwards behaviour, you need to rule out all the different types of water toxicity first (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and GH, KH and PH). An inappropriate PH, for instance, can cause flashing and gaping and the same goes for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate).
 
AFTER water toxicity is ruled out you will then know that a disease is the cause of the behaviour.
 
To identify the pathogen causing the flashing/gaping you will need to conduct a skin swab of the fish using a cotton wool bud. If you want to send this off to me in the mail I'll gladly take a look at the swab's contents to identify the parasite. I suspect you are dealing with body flukes which can be treated with a very mild treatment called Kusuri Wormer Plus; this also treats gill flukes. I would only use more stronger treatments when you have identified the exact parasite you are dealing with.
 
Note: If you want to send me a 20ml water sample along with a swab I can test your nitrate level with a nitrate meter (Horiba Nitrate Meter) and give you a result thats accurate by a degree of 0.1 ppm.

 

[doresy]

Thank you Mark for your comments and offers 
 
I take on board about the white spots not being present however my research suggests that it still likely to be Ich. It's all very confusing and to be honest I would have thought your comments to be more likely the case.
 
It has been suggested by the LFS that the 40ppm Nitrate in the tapwater (which they concur) is mainly due to the rural area and fertilisers and such. The constant level of 40ppm for nitrate has never been a problem before in the many years I have kept fish and in itself not considered a problem amount.
However, I do bow down to your superior knowledge on water chemistry as you do sound well versed on the subject.
 
I would like to try the  Kusuri Wormer Plus treatment ​even though there have been no new additions to my fish stock which would normally be required to introduce the flukes??
 
Latest water test (API, Liquid test kit) is showing a very clear zero for Ammonia and Nitrite. PH is a shade under 8, maybe 7.2 and of course 40 for nitrate. GH and KH I have to confess I do not have a test for them. As I mentioned the water is considered very hard around here and as stability is key with Cichlids I, rightly or wrongly, consider it to be ok. The LFS's around here (and there are many) raise and condition their Africans in the local water to reduce shock when buying.
 
In the meantime I will up my water changes  

 

[doresy]

Thank you Mark for your comments and offers 
 
I take on board about the white spots not being present however my research suggests that it still likely to be Ich. It's all very confusing and to be honest I would have thought your comments to be more likely the case.
 
It has been suggested by the LFS that the 40ppm Nitrate in the tapwater (which they concur) is mainly due to the rural area and fertilisers and such. The constant level of 40ppm for nitrate has never been a problem before in the many years I have kept fish and in itself not considered a problem amount.
However, I do bow down to your superior knowledge on water chemistry as you do sound well versed on the subject.
 
I would like to try the  Kusuri Wormer Plus treatment ​even though there have been no new additions to my fish stock which would normally be required to introduce the flukes??
 
Latest water test (API, Liquid test kit) is showing a very clear zero for Ammonia and Nitrite. PH is a shade under 8, maybe 7.2 and of course 40 for nitrate. GH and KH I have to confess I do not have a test for them. As I mentioned the water is considered very hard around here and as stability is key with Cichlids I, rightly or wrongly, consider it to be ok. The LFS's around here (and there are many) raise and condition their Africans in the local water to reduce shock when buying.
 
In the meantime I will up my water changes  

Further to info above I have read that adding salt kills 99 % of parasites (external) and is tons better than any medications so this would sound a good next move? I guess it would be an ok move to add aquarium salt to a Tanganyikan set-upP

 

[mark4785]

Further to info above I have read that adding salt kills 99 % of parasites (external) and is tons better than any medications so this would sound a good next move? I guess it would be an ok move to add aquarium salt to a Tanganyikan set-upP

 
In your case, I would NOT put any grain of salt into the water because nitrate becomes highly toxic in salt water; this is why marine aquariums require stringent nitrate control.
 
While 40 ppm of nitrate isn't asking for trouble (in fresh water), nitrate testing kit which tells you that your nitrate level is 40 ppm when it is in fact 60+ ppm is very much asking for trouble. Nitrate tests are notoriously inaccurate and that's why I recommended either contacting your water company to get a more accurate picture or sending me a water sample. 
 
If I were you I'd prioritise ascertaining your EXACT nitrate level, if it is indeed around 40 ppm I'd then prioritise doing a skin scrape to identify any parasites under a microscope while treating the water with Kusuri Wormer Plus. I think it's important to realise that parasites lay dormant in many environments. So be it the hexamita parasite, fluke or ICH organism, it will attack your fish when it's immune system is hampered. These parasites CAN attack fish when their immune systems aren't compromised in situations where they've been imported into the tank via plants/fish or filter media from another closed-aquarium system and they've multiplied excessively.

 

[doresy]

The stuff I WAS going to use is Aqualibrium by Interpet.  I hear what you say about the nitrates/salt water but cannot find any mention of it on the box nor on internet which is puzzling?
 
To catch any fish in my set up involves the removal of all rock and, not being very good at catching, a lot of disturbance. Then the manhandling of this chap with scrapes and gill inspection all sound daunting. I was hoping for another way.
 
What I am finding hard is all my fish have been in the (constant) water levels including the 40 ppm nitrates for years and years without a single problem apart from this fish. I use API Master Freshwater Liquid kit to test water and have had the levels confirmed today by the LFS so if I cant rely on that then what's the point.
 
Stuff on the internet is driving me potty. Some say use this and that then others say all meds are useless and salt cures all! Then I find out that salt + nitrate will basically cause carnage.  
 
I have been studing the fish this afternoon and these are my observations. On the most part he is acting perfectly normal, ie cruising, pecking at the gravel, stationary at differing levels of the tank. Then he will suddenly gape a couple of times while going backwards for a couple of inches, shake his head once then quick swim forward and hit the side of his head in a glancing motion either on the gravel or rocks a couple of time. All this is over in a couple of seconds then he is back to normal behaviour. There are no marks, spots or anything unusual visible that I can see.
 
I am thinking it all points to gill trouble now so can't I just try a med that will illuminate that possibility at my next water change (to remove ich meds which I tried earlier)?