Making A Pond + Koi Question

[afishdude]

ok i just cleared the area for my new pond. im upgrading from a 75g one i have now. its going to be 6ft X 3ft X 3ft deep. so roughly 400g but im going to have two places where it will only be 1ft deep for plants. so im thinking around 350g or so. anywase i have a small koi i got from a friend thats in my pond now, the main reason im upgrading. so im thinking of moving my shoal of 4 rosy red minnows back into the pond next spring. if i have 4 minnows, one small koi, what else could i put in there? i was thinking of maby some more koi friends but i dont no how many gallons it is per koi, i think it is 1000. getting rid of the koi really isnt an option because none of my lfs's sell coldwater, and i have no more fiends with ponds except the one i got the koi from. the pond will have a fountin pump and an external canister filter rated for 500g.
any suggestions before i break ground? any suggestions fishwise? anyone wanna just say hi?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hmm you are going to need a lot larger pond than that if you want to house koi in the long term. Koi are caro which can potentially grow up to 4ft long, but tend to average out at about 3ft long- because of the this, the minimum advised size pond for koi is a 12ft long by 6ft wide and 4ft deep pond (about 2000gallons). Another problem is that the koi will grow more than large enough to eat rosey red minnows as it grows up, so those aren't safe tankmates for the koi in the long run.

Koi ponds also need very good filtration, the turds these carp can produce can get very big when the koi grow to 2-3ft+ long, and koi poop a lot in general, so you need strong filtration at least for larger specimens of koi.

A 6ft X 3ft X 3ft deep pond is only large enough for goldfish really, and even then the width is a little on the short side (would be better being 4ft wide, as common and comet goldfish have the potential to grow up to 2ft long, at least 15inches+ on average), and would ideally be better being 7-8ft long.

As a general rule, for both average activity aquarium fish and pond fish, for fish which grow to 12inches long or more (to find the length of the pond/tank) you should have a tank/pond at least 4 times the length of the fish, to find the width of the tank/pond is should be twice the length of the fish, and to find the depth it depends on various factors when it comes down to the fish in question and whether its in an aquarium or pond.
These measurements are there to ensure the fish has decent space to excercise/swim about in and has enough space to grow to a decent size and has a good quality of life etc .
If your winters get cold enough to freeze the water in the pond at all at any point during the winter, the pond needs to be at least 4ft deep for koi to allow larger specimens to have a successful good hibernation during the winter- any shallower, and the pond may become too cold for the koi and the koi will have a stressful hibernation during the winter, it could even die from the freezing temps (as the shallower the pond, the less well insulated it is from the cold). If the pond becomes too cold for too long (i.e. because the pond is too shallow and the winter too long and harsh), you can also end up stunting the growth of the fish.


If you can't get a 12x6x4ft pond or anything near those measurements then it really is best to rehome the koi- if you can't rehome it to a petshop or don't know anyone with a larger enough pond for koi with some space to spare, why not try rehoming it on the forum in the buy/sell/swap section?

Koi are long term commitment fish (they can live to over 50 years old) and are quite high maintanence fish as far as pond fish go. With the koi stocking thing, if you get a pond large enough for keeping koi in the long term in it, the general guide suggests 250gallons per koi, but this guide may vary a bit depending on the exact measurements of the pond.

 

[afishdude]

im sorry, i gave the wrong measurements . i gave the origanal ones and not the ones i am using. its going to be 10 X 4 X 4. maby a little longer. and hevy filterd, a founten and a canister filter.

another question, how should i lay the liner? i was thinking of smoothing the dirt (which is clay) then a thin layer of sand to even it out, then some padding of some kind, and then the liner held down by large landscaping rocks.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Ah you won't need to worry about holding the liner down with anything, when the pond is filled up with water it will push out the liner into its place- if putting some rocks on it makes it easier for you to get it in place while laying it down in the pond, then there's no problem with doing that . You should first put some underlay down first before you put the liner in, this is a felt-like fabric which helps insulate the pond and also protects the liner from rocks and tree roots and stuff.

When choosing the size of the liner and underlay, its best to opt for more than you technically need as its difficult to accurately measure out how much liner/underlay you need in ponds, so its always best to get more than you need to be on the safe side- remember you will need about a 1ft of liner to go around the edges/borders of the pond too.

Before you put in the liner and underlay though it is vital to remove any rocks you find while digging the pond- they may appear to be in a safe position at first, but over the years worms may move the rocks around gradually over the years by digging around them, and these rocks my puncture the liner after some years.
Once you've removed all the rocks in the pond, plaster the bottom and sides of the pond with sand to just give it that extra protection from rocks and tree roots and stuff- the sand will help deter tree's trying to grow their roots down the sides of the pond in particular.


If your soil is heavy with clay, this will make things a lot easier in many respects as its much easier to cut out ponds in clay soil than dry chalky soil as the clay will help hold the sides of the pond up while you are digging it. In dry chalky soil, its very difficult to dig ponds because the walls/sides of the pond are always disintergrating, and many people have to opt to lining the pond with a brick wall and concrete collar to keep the sides of the pond up.
I was lucky in a way since the soil in my area is very heavy with clay, most of it is just clay in fact, and although it was heavy and sticky to dig out, it did help in keeping the shape of the pond .
EDIT: (Just a word of warning- when you've finished digging out the pond and are ready to put the underlay and liner in it, make sure you do this as soon as posible- sun can dry out the soil causing great big cracks to appear in it and may even cause slabs of the sides of the pond to fall off, while rain filling up the pond hole with water can be a pain in the bum to bucket out of the pond).


With the positioning of your pond, take into consideration that if you do put it in a very open area which recieve's a lot of sun, you will get bad algae problems at least for the first year or too depending on how much you plant up the pond and what plants you put in it exactly (a UV filter could be essential in dealing with algae problems). Also be wary of tree's- some tree's have very invasive and wide spreading roots (like willow tree's) and their roots could pose a threat to the pond, also take into consideration all the leave's these tree's may drop in the winter, as you will need to remove them from the pond to help prevent it from becomming too silted up etc .

 

[afishdude]

thanks, you answerd many of my questions. im almost 3/4 of the way done digging it.

what is that stuff you put between the dirt and the liner? can you post a link so i no what i need to get?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

what is that stuff you put between the dirt and the liner? can you post a link so i no what i need to get?

Its polyfelt underlay fabric, helps protect the liner and insulates the pond ;

http/www.absolute-koi.com/subcat177.html


.

 

[afishdude]

ok thanks