Make Peace Not War!

[Leedsboi86]

Hello everyone.

Before I start I want to make it know this isn't mean't to insult 5teady or anyone else tryin to better there local fish stores services in any shape or form.

I have been following 5teady's Thread for abit now and as much as I understand what he is tryin to do I can't agree with the method.
Again I have nothing against 5teady but I thought it would be a good idea to chat about maybe some better methods of improving the way our LFS's run.

At the moment I am also talking with some stores about the information they give up to new fish owners, But my methods are quite different.

For the people who haven't had time to read 5teady's thread, He has phoned/visited several of his LFS's pretending to be a new fish owner seeking advice and when the store give him the wrong advice he then let on that he was actually quite smart when it came to fish keeping.

Now correct me if I am wrong but if someone came into your place of work and asked for information from you which you gave them thinking you was correct to then be told your wrong and that it was a trick the whole time, Would that not well piss you off and a royal level?

I understand that stores do give out the wrong information but the trick method really isn't a good way to go about correcting it.
In all honesty if this was done I would probably think the owner/worker thinks "What a clever lil sh1t" and ignore them totally.

Now the method I have been using is firstly to arrange to meet with the person in charge of the Aquatic department so he was prepared to speak with me and not basically me walking in from the street and disturbing him while he was working.

Anyway once I had a meeting date I would prepare some print-offs for the person including fishless cycling and the benefits to it aswell as maintenance for tanks and proper care for fish.

I find that they are willing to listen and try to understand the information I have given to them.
With a great success rate and not been banned for any LFS yet I find this a brilliant strategy.

2 of my LFS's have even agreed to give out fishless cycling guides with every new tank sold and they are giving out fish care guides with every fish purchased which is a great step forward for them, They have even told me that since they have been included there fish-death returns have dropped a large amount.

Again nothing against 5teady I just don't agree with causing a big scene in the middle of a store helps at all.

Would love to hear peoples thoughts, methods, ideas towards this subject.

 

[PlatinumAngel]

I mentioned that I was fishless cycling to my lfs guy. He'd never done it but was quite interested to see my progress. Asked me to come back in a week with a water sample for him to check out. I think if I'm successful, and explain the process to him he'd be more likely to suggest it to others instead of just fish in cycling.

 

[BigC]

The LFS should in my estimation be fully aware of all the aspects of cycling and other new startup related topics. They should be well aware of furnishing newbie customers with precise up to date information pamphlets on these very aspects. and keep a stock of these aformentioned pamphlets inhouse. I would also go as far as putting staff through basic OATA certification courses (£25 ea)
http/www.ornamentalfish.org/education/ho...certificate.php
At least that way P@H and the likes can prove they are doing something constructive.
I think this is a step in the right direction
Regards
BigC

 

[5teady_2012]

I did change my stratergy if you read the latest lfs i went too

 

[gemzie78]

i agree with big c

 

[andywg]

I find this is a stage that many of the members on this board go through. They learn how to keep fish and a bit on fishless cycling and forget that there are other ways and so consider it their task to educate the world to keep fish in the same fashion they do.

At this point a number of topics and posts will be made about how awful an lfs is because they don't tell everyone about fishless cycling, or because they allow other human beings to be responsible for their own lives, research and stock selection (or alternatively, get upset when an lfs prevents a certain purchase - Hobson's Choice methinks).

Most of the members that stay longer realise there is no rulebook or law on keeping fish and turn their focuses back to their own tank and realise many an lfs doesn't do that bad a job considering the wages return for most of the staff.

 

[BigC]

Most of the members that stay longer realise there is no rulebook or law on keeping fish and turn their focuses back to their own tank and realise many an lfs doesn't do that bad a job considering the wages return for most of the staff.

I can relate to that Andy.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I find this is a stage that many of the members on this board go through. They learn how to keep fish and a bit on fishless cycling and forget that there are other ways and so consider it their task to educate the world to keep fish in the same fashion they do.

At this point a number of topics and posts will be made about how awful an lfs is because they don't tell everyone about fishless cycling, or because they allow other human beings to be responsible for their own lives, research and stock selection (or alternatively, get upset when an lfs prevents a certain purchase - Hobson's Choice methinks).

Most of the members that stay longer realise there is no rulebook or law on keeping fish and turn their focuses back to their own tank and realise many an lfs doesn't do that bad a job considering the wages return for most of the staff.

totally agree

i know there's plenty of knowledgeable experienced members on this forum (the sort of people who would make brilliant lfs staff) who would absolutely love to work in a fish shop, but simply couldn't afford to support their families on the wages that fish shops pay.

Lets be blunt about it, most lfs employee's are on minimum wage or there abouts, they are not marine biologists and you shouldn't expect them to be experts. yes it's great if they are receptive to learning and willing to give out info on fishless cycling etc but we shouldn't be too hard on them if it's all a bit much for them.

Have to put it in perspective.... you wouldn't ask a McDonalds employee for nutritional advice now would you?!

 

[raptorrex]

I find this is a stage that many of the members on this board go through. They learn how to keep fish and a bit on fishless cycling and forget that there are other ways and so consider it their task to educate the world to keep fish in the same fashion they do.

At this point a number of topics and posts will be made about how awful an lfs is because they don't tell everyone about fishless cycling, or because they allow other human beings to be responsible for their own lives, research and stock selection (or alternatively, get upset when an lfs prevents a certain purchase - Hobson's Choice methinks).

Most of the members that stay longer realise there is no rulebook or law on keeping fish and turn their focuses back to their own tank and realise many an lfs doesn't do that bad a job considering the wages return for most of the staff.

totally agree

i know there's plenty of knowledgeable experienced members on this forum (the sort of people who would make brilliant lfs staff) who would absolutely love to work in a fish shop, but simply couldn't afford to support their families on the wages that fish shops pay.

Lets be blunt about it, most lfs employee's are on minimum wage or there abouts, they are not marine biologists and you shouldn't expect them to be experts. yes it's great if they are receptive to learning and willing to give out info on fishless cycling etc but we shouldn't be too hard on them if it's all a bit much for them.

Have to put it in perspective.... you wouldn't ask a McDonalds employee for nutritional advice now would you?!

these guys, should, however know the exact nutritional value of the products they sell. as it is taught to them, or should be.

its simple, to me, the owners of most LFS, don't give a toss about you or your stock, just how much money they make. till there is a change here, nothing else will change.

 

[Hawkins]

Have to put it in perspective.... you wouldn't ask a McDonalds employee for nutritional advice now would you?!

Agree.. most (larger) LFS employees are just providing the "we sell fish" service..

But if they would explain things properly then people wouldn't return and complain.

 

[BigC]

know there's plenty of knowledgeable experienced members on this forum (the sort of people who would make brilliant lfs staff) who would absolutely love to work in a fish shop, but simply couldn't afford to support their families on the wages that fish shops pay.

This is exactly what happened to me recently. My Lfs is expertly run and covers all aspects of fishkeeping (Grovenor Tropicals) I saw a job advertised, taped to one of the frozen food freezers for part-time staff. I enquired and they said they could not get anyone willing to work PT. So they asked would I be interested in working full time. Now I've a severly acute ankle injury and the idea was to leave normal employment and take on some lighter work alla the LFS. The immediate question I asked was about the wages., I was told that they could not pay anymore than the going shopkeeping rates which over here amounts to £6 per hour. Now being a glasscutter you can imagine the wage drop I would have to take if I wanted the LFS job. I would dearly loved to have taken that position but could, as Miss Wiggle so rightly pointed out, not suffer the wage drop.
They eventally filled the position with a young lad who has just left school. Hes a wee bit slow but I cant really knock the lad as he has to learn somewhere and good luck to him.
So you see there is another avenue that calls for improvment. Staff wages.
Regards
BigC

 

[Miss Wiggle]

This is exactly what happened to me recently. My Lfs is expertly run and covers all aspects of fishkeeping (Grovenor Tropicals) I saw a job advertised, taped to one of the frozen food freezers for part-time staff. I enquired and they said they could not get anyone willing to work PT. So they asked would I be interested in working full time. Now I've a severly acute ankle injury and the idea was to leave normal employment and take on some lighter work alla the LFS. The immediate question I asked was about the wages., I was told that they could not pay anymore than the going shopkeeping rates which over here amounts to £6 per hour. Now being a glasscutter you can imagine the wage drop I would have to take if I wanted the LFS job. I would dearly loved to have taken that position but could, as Miss Wiggle so rightly pointed out, not suffer the wage drop.
They eventally filled the position with a young lad who has just left school. Hes a wee bit slow but I cant really knock the lad as he has to learn somewhere and good luck to him.
So you see there is another avenue that calls for improvment. Staff wages.
Regards
BigC

likewise my other half was made redundant last year (he's a builder), struggled to find work a bit so contemplated a career change, our lfs was advertising. Worked out he could earn more money as a site labourer than they could pay him so he did that for a bit until he got back into his trade.