Major Fish worries!!

[umcookeg]

Hi,

I am VERY new this is my first fish tank and first post to the forum. Here is the story.
My girlfriend and I decided to buy a fish tank for Valentines. Its a 30 gallon tank. We started off by filling up the tank and waiting and monitoring for about ... its late.. 4 days. Anyway when we went out to buy fish, I was totally relying on my girlfriend for advice since she has had aquariums before. Wellll now I have a tank with.....

6 Tiger Barbs
2 Bala Sharks
2 Electric Yellow Cichlids
4 Neon Tetra's ( they are not tetra's but they look like them so.. )
2 Gourami's ( pearl )
2 Red Tailed Sharks
2 Red Platties
1 Pleco ( I think he is starving since the tank is new only about 1 1/2 now.. no algea)

Have I over populated the tank?

Oh yeh I have a Betta as well but the damn barbs started dining on his tail so I moved him out to his origional tank 2 gallons. I tried to get more barbs but that didn't seem to solve the nipping issue.

I have been told that I have over fed the fish. I was told to feed them regularly so I have been giving them about two pinches of food per feeding which ( was ) about 3 times a day. I am going to go down to twice a day for the next few days.

Now the tank is cloudy ( not severly but... ) there seems to be lots of food on the bottom, I found out when I cleaned the sides of the tank today.

How do I get rid of the cloudiness?

I read Anna's article on cycling and I wish I had read up on EVERYTHING BEFORE I did this but ....

We are trying Wardley Complete Conditioner to help reduce waste etc. I just started that treatment today. Is that stuff usefull or just a gimmic?

I am thinking of changing out the water ( or at least some of it ) I live in the country and we have hard water I was also told that that is not good for the fish. My pH is at 7.6 and steady.

Is this ok?
What should I do to get the pH down, I have gone through three bottles of pH down and I am still at 7.6 steady

Is 6 barbs enough I have heard that that is the minimum to prevent nipping should I get rid of them?

Sorry for the long post but I am REALLY worried about my fish and any advice would be awesome.

Thanks.

 

[Shadowpearl]

I'm new to this myself. I made the same mistake of doing the research afterwards. However from my small experience I can safely say that you are in the right place.

All of the following is general advice.

Some things that you need to do on the hurry up:

Get water testing kit and get yourself some reads as an indicator as to how toxic your tank is, particularly the Ammonia, the Nitrite and Nitrate levels -as regards PH and calcium: Don't sweat the small stuff. Fish adapt to that sort of stuff.

The big three are, the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates. Post the results for the good people here to analysise, along with water temperature.

Cut back on the feeds, if there's residue food it's gonna rot and pollute and add to your problem -it's also an indicator that you are overfeeding at this stage. Missing a day or two of fishy snacks is not gonna kill them.

Do a water change of 20% with water at the same temperature as your tank, ensure that the water is de-chlorinated with a suitable treatment additive.

Don't add any more chemicals to clear the water and leave the PH stuff alone. Your job is to look after the water and let the fish take care of themselves.

Don't panic. Have patience -bucket loads of it. You're in good hands here, they're a great bunch of people with great advice -there's a couple of thousand years worth of fish-keeping experience kicking around these pages.

Read the pinned notices and follow-up posts that sound pertinant. Do the tests and keep posting.

That's an awful lot of fish fella, get ready with the water changes.

Good luck!

 

[BIGMAC]

Hi and welcome.
To start i thin the major problem is that you added too many fish in one go,if you are cycling with fish you really need to start with just a couple of hardy fish and that way you are not overloading your filter .With so many fish you are gonna have an awfull lot of fish poop.If you have found lots of rotting food an fish waste on the top of your gravel you may be best just trying to syphon the excess of the surface trying not to disturb the gravel too much.do maybe 15 to 20%water changes daily till your ammonia level comes down,it will also help keep your nitrites down,your nitrite will eventually go down leaving you with nitrAte ,Once your ammonia and nitrIte are down to 0 and you have a reading of nitrAte,you are basically home and dry. Keep an eye on the ammonia level and do as many water changes as you need to keep it down it is deadly to the fish.The cloudy water should eventually clear by doing this,your fillter at the moment is struggling to cope with all the fish waste.Do regular water tests to keep an eye on the levels,and as you know you are gonna be doing lots of water changes.
Dont panic just be patient.
hope this helps.
Sue

 

[crazie.eddie]

You will be overstocked. The normal stocking guide is 1" of fish for every 1 gallon of water, which applies to fish under 3". Larger fish should be stocked at about 1" of fish for every (at the most) 5 gallons of water. This is due to larger fish will produce more waste, requires additional swimming room, more aggressive, and usually territorial. The bala sharks will get to be about 14". Once they get larger, they may make a meal out of the neon tetras. The neons and platies will probably not survive being in a tank full of aggressive fishes.

 

[Nina7777]

Hi- and welcome

Unfortunately you have way over populated your tank, especially since it is new, but also because the fish you have chosen will outgrow the tank in a matter of a month or so.
6 Tiger Barbs: In my opinion these fish are extremely active and should not be kept in a 30 gallon. They won't have enough room to swim around.
2 Bala Sharks: These fish are extremely skidish and will be even more so in a smaller tank. I have 2 of them which i kept in a 30 gallon with 5 other smaller fish and they were always hurting themselves. Not to mention mine have grown to 8 inches each. These guys should be kept in nothing less than a 55 gallon, and even then some would say that is too small, but if you only have a few other fish it should work out fine.
2 electric yellow cichlids: These guys will grow to around 5-6 inches and should be kept in a species tank only. you may see alot of agression as they get older. Plus they need special water requirements which some of your other fish will not tolerate.
4 neon tetra's: I notices that you said they are not tetras, well they probably are, but they are probably cardinal tetras, and are very sensitive to unstable tank conditions, however these would be suitable for a 30 gallon.
2 gourami's- these may also be suitable for a 30 gallon, however if they are both males you may see alot of aggression depending on the particular fish.
2 red tailed sharks: don't know much about these except that they grow large.
1 pleco: which i will assume is a common pleco and a 30 gallon is way too small, plus if you do decide to keep him you need to buy algae tablets as there is not enough food in a new tank.
2 red platties: Great choice for the 30 gallon! these are the fish you should use to cycle the tank. Hopefully you do not have a male and a female as soon you will alot of fry which will get eaten.

So in my opinion you should try to take back almost all of your fish and try cycling your tank with the 2 platties, maximum of 5 fish, for a 30 gallon.
I know it sucks but it isn't really fair for all those fish.

If you do decide to keep them though, which i do not recommend, you will need to buy amonia, nitirte, and nitrate testing kits, and am assuming you will have to do large water changes every day.

I would also cut back on feeding them every other day, and try to feed the plec algae tablets at night when he is most active.

What kind of filter do have? Your water is cloudy because of all the fish you have, because it is a new tank, and because the fish all produce a ton of waste. My 30 gallon was always cloudy when I had 2 balas, one convict, one tetra, and 3 clown loaches, and I had an emporer 400 which is suitable for a 70 gallon tank.

as far as the ph is concerned, you should not try to add any chemicles to fix this as it will only do more harm than it is worth.

So in conclusion (hehehe sounds like a report!)
Please try to get rid of some of your fish, and please do not put any more in.

These are only my opions and everyone has different opinions.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[tstenback]

Yes you are overpopulated.

Too many fish too soon for cycling with fish.

It is better to have your fish hungry than to overfeed so cut way back on the feeding ie twice a day very small amount. Watch the fish when they feed and try to gauge how much they eat in about 3 minutes, that is all you should feed them. If any food remains floating at this point remove it.

The cloudiness could be a combination of excess food and bacteria bloom. Start frequent water changes to help the cloudiness if caused by excess feeding and to keep ammonia around 1ppm or lower, this will leave enough ammonia for the cycling but ease the stress on the fish. Monitor Ammonia and nitrites often as you have a large number of fish to be concerned about.

Dont add any chemicals to clean the water, try it by doing the water changes. The fish dont need anything else to cause them stress at this point.

Take as many fish as you can back to the lfs. Some will only give you instore credit for them but thats good enough at this point as it will allow you to pick your fish later a few at a time and will likely save many of them.

We have all made these mistakes along the way and through the good advise of our aquarists friends have managed to save the fish and have the confidence to continue on in the hobby. Be patient and good Luck!

 

[umcookeg]

wow thanks for all the advice. I was going to change the water today, so ... now I will. I don't yet have a nitrate, nitrite, testing kit but I will go out today and get one.

As for taking back the fish, the store has already said they will take them back, but catching them........what ever! Especially the barbs they are a tad an the quick side.

I will stop messing with the pH

More questions

My water temp is 28 is that to high or just right sounds just right to me.

Which fish do you recommend I take back?

Again.....

2 balas ( I love these guys, the store says once they get large to bring them back and they will give me in store credit, is this ok or do you think due to my current tank conditions and size ( 30 gallon ), I should return them now?

2 platties: so far they seem happy the barbs try to nip them but they seem to fend them off.

2 electric yellow cichlids? ( not sure about the spelling) perhaps these I will take back since they are kind of going crazy in the tank swimming around in circles ( not all the time mind you ) but still. If you say they will get large ....

4 tetra's : so far "the people" are still alive i.e not eaten by the balas. And seem to be quite content. I could move them to a smaller tank do you recommend this?

2 pearl gouramis: they seem to be only aggressive towards themselves but I think its playfull cause they aren't bitting ..... it seems anyway.


Anyway if you all think that I should just keep a very small amount of fish untill I fix the tank cloudness issue I will.

Also what kind of "vaccum" is good. My girlfriend has been looking for a vaccum that is not a standard syphen? It just cleans up the particles from the bottom a puts the filtered water back into the tank? Has anyone heard of this before? If so what is it called, if not what should we buy?

I am down to one red tailed shark as the other one died. It was constantly being harassed by the other red tailed shark, I thought multiple red-tails got along well together?

Anyway thanks for all the input you guys are great. I wish I had found this forum ALOT SOONER!

I must admit I am hooked, I just started , I know, but already I want a larger tank perhaps I could move the balas out into a 55 gallon ( if I buy one ) with a couple other smaller fish like the platties.

Oh well I will act on all you recommendations and work on getting this tank in order before going crazy and getting anouther one.

Thanks again

Dave

 

[heresmike]

Hi Dave!

The best fish for cycling tanks are the hardy ones of course because they can stand the ammonia and nitrite that occurs during cycling. Platys are the only ones on your list IMO that are very hardy and suitable for cycling. Zebra danios are another good choice. Rule of thumb is 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons of water for cycling. It might be hard to take those fish back now, but you'd be doing the less hardy ones a favor, and you can always add them back (slowly) into a stable environment once the cycle is complete.

Also IMO, 28 might be a tad high. I might take it down a degree or two. I keep mine at that temp for the angels cuz they like it warmer.

Also would like to echo that you shouldn't try to mess with the pH. Mine is 8.0, so I wish I were in your position with 7.6! Surprised though that you didn't see a change, even a temporary one, after using all the pH down. Maybe because your water is so hard. BTW, african cichlids love hard water. Sorry if this is info overload!

Hope this helps! Good Luck!

 

[BIGMAC]

Hi Dave, i personaly just use a standard syphon and find that that works fine as well as cleaning the gravel it helps with the water change .
Hope all our advice has hellped,just take it slow and read as much stuff as you can on here these guys give sound advice,dont know where i would have been without them all.
Be patient with the stocking of your tank and dont add new fish till your water is stable,and then only add a couple at a time allowing your tank to stabalise each time.
Good luck.
Sue B)

 

[Nina7777]

hey there,
Sounds like your very willing to help your fish out!

Whatever you decide to do i wish you the best of luck. The bala's would be fine in the 30 gallon for about 6 months but i don't think they can make it through the cycle. Perhaps you could take them, along with the barbs, and cichlids, back to the store and then once your tank is stable you could get the balas back, but you will definately want to think about the 55 gallon once they start growing.

What i did was i cycled my 30 gallon 2 years ago, with 2 platties and 2 red eye tetras. When the cycle was complete unfortunately I only had one red eye tetra left. But this wasn't because of the cycle it was because he was a bully and killed everyone. So then (about 2 months after the tank was cycled) I went out and bought 4 convicts and 1 texas cichlid, i figured the red eye tetra wouldn't last very long in that tank, but to my surprise one female convict and him actually beat up the other cichlids, so i kept the one convict and the red eye tetra and took the rest back to store. Then I got the 2 balas and two chinese algae eaters. All these fish lived peacefully and healthy for a good year untill we had a mishap with aquaraium salt and unfortunately my 2 cae's died. THis is when i replaced them with 3 clown loaches. by this point my balas were 8" each so i bought them a 55 gallon and moved them all over to it last weekend. And now my 30 gallon is dedicated to mbuna cichlids.

I know this doesn't answer any of your questions but i just wanted to give you an example.

as for the gravel cleaner, I believe your girlfriend is probably looking for a battery operated one, where it just removes the debris and not the water, but i recommend a siphon tube, because not only does it remove the debris but it also removes water for your weekly partial water changes. Makes life simplier!

GOOD LUCK! and keep us updated!

 

[umcookeg]

HI All,

Thanks again everyone for the great advice.

The tank cloudiness is MUCH better after the second water change. I just finished the second. I went out bought the kits u suggested and a syphon. I did the water change by using the syphon of course, to clean up the bottom.
My ammonia level BEFORE the water change this morning was between

3.0 - .5 it's sort of hard to eyeball the chart but I think its leaning more towards the lighter side so between 2.0 - .5, lots of particulates in the water as well. No supprise there cause we have been doing so much work in the tank.

Is that high? No that's a stupid question yes it is. But how dangerous is that level. I would assume according to the chart moderate? So just keep changing water daily?
I am changing out ~15%

Yet one more question.....

My girlfriend is looking for a nice zebra angelfish, we can't seem to find any in the city, do you suggest buying online, if so from who'm would you recommend.

I will be returning some of the fish after I get back from Uni.

Thanks again.

 

[heresmike]

IMO, your ammonia level is still to high for the fish you have. I'd try to get it below 1.0. This will make the cycle take longer, but will be good for the fish. If you decide to take back the fish and go with the more hardy ones (ie, platys and danios) I think they can handle higher levels of ammo.

Regarding the angelfish... I've never ordered fish online, but have heard lots of success stories, and plan to order some angels when I get tank #3 going. Where are you located? I assume it's not in the US because you mentioned your temp in degrees celcius. Your location is important for someone to recommed an online supplier. BTW, rule of thumb for angels is 1 angel per 10 gallons, and the tank should be at least 18" in height.