Macro's Fishless Cycle

[Macro]

Because I was curious I decided to do a PM water test tonight and here are the Day 8 (9:30pm) results:

pH 7.6, Ammonia .50ppm (dropped from 1.0 this morning), Nitrite 1.0ppm (same as yesterday but it's real hard to tell between 1.0 and 5.0ppm), NitrAte 10ppm (first time I've shown a reading), Temp 82.

It's interesting to me to see the NH3 drop in half in 11hrs. Seeing some NO3 is interesting too, I'm not sure how often I should measure the NO3 though. Just thought I'd make an update /shrug.

 

[Dan-CR4]

looks like your starting to get started now, keep up the good work

 

[Macro]

Day 9 Test Results: pH 7.6, Ammonia .25ppm (dropped from .50 last night), Nitrite 5.0ppm, Nitrate 10, Temp 82.

I'm wondering if, since I've got this 'enriched' substrate (eco-complete and active-flora), should I be doing partial water changes every week? I don't want to get to the point where I'm being told to do a thorough gravel cleaning because I don't want to suck up, take away, ruin or disturb the good stuff that's in it.

Does having this kind of substrate change the kind of cycling I should be doing? Should I be doing a silent cycle (don't really know what that is other than you have plants in it when it cycles) I guess this is stuff I should have asked before I started but hopefully I'm not too far along in the process to change if I should.

Thanks for any help.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Macro,

Thank you for the nice fishless cycle data presentation, your cycle is very easy to check on! It also looks good, the way its going. Your nitrite spike looks to be starting and ammonia is about down to zero for the first time. I'd try to ease that temperature on up to 84F if you can get it to go a little higher.

You are worrying needlessly about your substrate additives. The nutrients they bind to the gravels, as with Eco-Complete, are bound tightly and will not suffer from years of gravel cleaning. You simply maintain your tank normally and the nutrients will stay with the gravel and will be available to the plant roots.

My choice would be to experience your tank as a somewhat normal beginners community tank for the first year or two so that you will have this baseline experience to work from. I feel that if you then branch out and make the effort to fully put into practice the major "planted tank" principles which you will no doubt be studying during this period, you would then be able to go into that with a better understanding and a better appreciation of the differences you will be creating. This is a personal choice however and only you can know what you need to do.

I'm of course picturing that you will be able to learn quite a bit of hands-on plant care even prior to fully committing perhaps to the rigors of a high-tech planted tank. So it is my feeling that an ammonia fishless cycle anticipating that plants will go in somewhere near the first fish introduction would be the way to go. A "silent cycle" is a beautiful thing but it is still my opinion that the experts that can get that right have quite a bit more experience making sure a mass of plants won't die than the average person who is at the start of virtually everything, tank starting, fishkeeping and plantkeeping!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Macro]

Day 10 Test Results: pH 7.6, Ammonia 0.0ppm (dropped from .25 yesterday), Nitrite 5.0ppm, Nitrate 10, Temp 80 (dropped to accommodate the new plants). Did 20% H2O change appx. 11hrs before test.

I have gone in a slightly different direction now that I have read more about planted tanks (seems like a never ending quest) and I've added some plants. Waterdrop I'm sorry if that's frustrating but I bought the plants and planted it all before your post was up. I can see that my tank will probably be turning into more of an experiment than a straightforward cycle, I'm okay with that.

Here's a few pics. I'll probably rearrange some of the plants and definitely try and hide the heater better. I'm currently just going for growth to continue to get more plant density.

So from here on I'm not sure if I should continue to dose the NH3 (I did tonight but only up to .50ppm just in case the plants are sensitive). I'll continue to update the log but I don't know what to expect of the parameters since the plants may change things. I also may go with some light stocking down the road if the parameters are looking stable.

Feel free to comment about tank/cycle or mock me, which I may deserve.

Macro

 

[Macro]

Day 11 AM Test Results: pH 7.2 (dropped a bit from yesterday), Ammonia 0.0ppm (dosed up to .50ppm last night, in 12hrs 0.0ppm), Nitrite 5.0ppm, Nitrate 10, Temp 78 (this should be final temp for tank accounting for plants). ludwigia palustris has changed color from solid green to brown/red green (not sure what this indicates, ludwigia palustris does show redish coloring when getting proper light, seems fast though if it was that.)

First post log updated.

 

[waterdrop]

You need to raise the crowns (where leaf stems meet roots) of your amazon swords just barely above the substrate surface. Having them below the substrate surface will kill them. The ammonia is not going to bother your plants nearly as much as not having nutrients will (are you dosing nutrients?) The majority of tanks with plants do just fine in fishless cycling (and yes, you need to get your ammonia dose back up if you are going to grow any bacteria in there!)

WD

 

[Macro]

You need to raise the crowns (where leaf stems meet roots) of your amazon swords just barely above the substrate surface. Having them below the substrate surface will kill them. The ammonia is not going to bother your plants nearly as much as not having nutrients will (are you dosing nutrients?) The majority of tanks with plants do just fine in fishless cycling (and yes, you need to get your ammonia dose back up if you are going to grow any bacteria in there!)

WD

Thanks for the advice Waterdrop, I'll fix the Swords right away. I don't have any ferts yet. I was thinking of getting some Flourish or Flourish Excel, maybe both, do you think that would be adequate?

So the dosing of NH3 to 4ppm would still be recommended with plants in the tank? Does the cycle profile (for lack of a better term) change with some plants in the tank?

Thanks again for your help, I thought I may have ostracized myself from the cycling community.

 

[waterdrop]

You need to raise the crowns (where leaf stems meet roots) of your amazon swords just barely above the substrate surface. Having them below the substrate surface will kill them. The ammonia is not going to bother your plants nearly as much as not having nutrients will (are you dosing nutrients?) The majority of tanks with plants do just fine in fishless cycling (and yes, you need to get your ammonia dose back up if you are going to grow any bacteria in there!)

WD

Thanks for the advice Waterdrop, I'll fix the Swords right away. I don't have any ferts yet. I was thinking of getting some Flourish or Flourish Excel, maybe both, do you think that would be adequate?

So the dosing of NH3 to 4ppm would still be recommended with plants in the tank? Does the cycle profile (for lack of a better term) change with some plants in the tank?

Thanks again for your help, I thought I may have ostracized myself from the cycling community.

Ha! No one would hold it against you for deciding to cycle in a particular way, we just want to help. I'm quite interested in planted tanks and am a member of the AGA (you can have a look at planted tanks at aga, its fun) and always trying to learn about them myself. Your tank looks quite beautiful, especially your new plants but technically it would probably not be considered to be heavily planted enough to be called a "planted tank" in the sense we use the term. Often we describe it as 70% substrate planted to be at the crossover line, but of course its subjective. What you have there is a nice beginner tank with nice plantings - they are not going to be heavy enough to take you out of the realm of a fishless cycle and in to the realm of a "silent cycle." This is why I recommended simply continuing to follow the standard fishless cycle advice and then dropping further into the world of planted things once things are stabilized. A really good working biofilter will not be a detriment to a good planted tank. If the plants do so well that they complete with the baceria, that's ok, the quantity of bacteria would then just drop downward a bit in the filter and from the point of view of healthy fish, that's the direction you always want to happen, just dropping down from a safe place and the fish being protected all along.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Macro]

Day 13 AM Test Results: pH 7.2 , Ammonia 1.0ppm (dosed up to 2.0ppm last night, in 12hrs dropped in half), Nitrite 1.0ppm (dropped from 5.0ppm two days ago. I'm guessing it's because I didn't dose NH3 for a couple days), Nitrate 10 (slightly lighter than 10 but you know how the test kit is), Temp 78.

I missed my day 12 update but I did do the tests that day and they are in the log entry.

Have a good day

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, one of the good things about being very regular in the -amount- you dose and the -time- when you dose is that the waves of results that come later as a result become easier to interpret that way. This is actually a detail that stands in favor of just always using 5ppm dosing, as RDD chose in his original article and at times I'm tempted to just stick with that.

~~waterdrop~~