Lr Cycle Confusion

[lgarvey]

Hi,

I'm confused about the test results. I had a Tropic Marin test kit that was giving me faulty results, then I realised it was well out of date. So I donated to teh wheelie bin and bought a new Tropic Marin test kit. The LFS guy rates them highly, even though I was planning to get several individual Salifert test kits.

Anyways, the tank has been set up since about Thursday morning. The rock was cured - the LFS guy gave it a good whiff and made sure he got rock that was relatively odorless. Then the rock was out of the water for about 3 hours (max), whilst being transported. This is supposedly enough for a significant amount of die off.

But after testing the water, I'm seeing: 0

Am - 0
Ni - 0
Na - about 2mg/l (pale purple)

The Na doesn't look like any kind of spike to me and I'd expected it to get past 10 at least. But if Am and Ni are both 0, then I don't expect Na to change significantly.

My concern is that if the rock has already cycled and experienced only a small amount of die off, then the lack of Am source now will not help the bacteria colonise.

Another possible issue is, the tank is only 45Ls (11.5 US gallons) and there's £36 of live rock in there. I think it's about £10 per kg, which means I have about 3.6kg of live rock. Maybe I don't have enough LR in there to cause any significant fluctuations?

*confused*

Should I add more LR?
Should I feel small amounts of fish food to the tank?
Or should I begin to get the CuC in there?

L

PS. This is the LR in the tank. I didn't want a huge amount of it as it'll reduce the room in the tank and I didn't want the LR too near the glass so I can easily keep the glass clean. Some re-aquascaping is probably needed though.



PPS. Photobucket is much cooler than Flickr for allowing embedded images! woot!

 

[seffieuk]

Hi,

I'm confused about the test results. I had a Tropic Marin test kit that was giving me faulty results, then I realised it was well out of date. So I donated to teh wheelie bin and bought a new Tropic Marin test kit. The LFS guy rates them highly, even though I was planning to get several individual Salifert test kits.

I would have bought Salifert

Anyways, the tank has been set up since about Thursday morning. The rock was cured - the LFS guy gave it a good whiff and made sure he got rock that was relatively odorless. Then the rock was out of the water for about 3 hours (max), whilst being transported. This is supposedly enough for a significant amount of die off.

Was it transported very wet? I would expect a cycle

But after testing the water, I'm seeing: 0

Am - 0
Ni - 0
Na - about 2mg/l (pale purple)

The Na doesn't look like any kind of spike to me and I'd expected it to get past 10 at least. But if Am and Ni are both 0, then I don't expect Na to change significantly.

Strange, wait till Thursday and test again

My concern is that if the rock has already cycled and experienced only a small amount of die off, then the lack of Am source now will not help the bacteria colonise.

There will be some die off I am sure - if the rock was out of water for three hours, so don't worry

Another possible issue is, the tank is only 45Ls (11.5 US gallons) and there's £36 of live rock in there. I think it's about £10 per kg, which means I have about 3.6kg of live rock. Maybe I don't have enough LR in there to cause any significant fluctuations?

You need approx 5 k for your tank to filter adequatly

*confused*

Should I add more LR?

Yes and do it soon

Should I feel small amounts of fish food to the tank?

You can if you are worried, but it really is not needed

Or should I begin to get the CuC in there?

No, wait

L

PS. This is the LR in the tank. I didn't want a huge amount of it as it'll reduce the room in the tank and I didn't want the LR too near the glass so I can easily keep the glass clean. Some re-aquascaping is probably needed though.



Looking good

PPS. Photobucket is much cooler than Flickr for allowing embedded images! woot!

Thought you might be happier with it

Seffie x

 

[lgarvey]

Cool! Thanks Seffie.

I will go by another 1.5kgs tomorrow and stick it in the tank. I can have the LR from shop to tank within about 20 mins.

Note to self: must be patient

 

[seffieuk]

Cool! Thanks Seffie.

I will go by another 1.5kgs tomorrow and stick it in the tank. I can have the LR from shop to tank within about 20 mins.

Note to self: must be patient

must admit, i'm not good at the patience bit either - take a container with you and ask them to put water in enough to cover the rock (obviously put a lid on!!!)

Seffie x

 

[lgarvey]

Hi,

I got another 2kgs of LR today. It was ready cured, and as I had my motorbike instead of putting it in water, the LFS people put it into a bag. I then scooted home -- through the city centre in heavy rush hour traffic -- about 3/4 miles and the LR was no more than 20 minutes out of the water from LR container to my tank. So I suspect the die off from the new rock will be minimal.

Time to aquascape the rock.

The stats have not shifted either way today. There appears to be perhaps a very small amount of ammonia - between the first two colour markers so perhaps about 0.025 pp/l. Absolutely no nitrIte and the nitrAte hasn't budged. The tank has been running for a week.

It's possible the new rock may mini cycle so I'll keep checking the water for the next few days to see what happens.

Could it be that because there's so little rock the die off has been minimal? The rock that is already in the tank appears to have developed a small amount of red Coraline algae, and a lot of brown algae. I assume the brown algae are brown diatoms from the cycling conditions. It's fairly easy to contrast this with the new LR which is mainly white, with bits of red.

There's no brown algae growing on the tank or on the substrate.

L

 

[rl1oyd]

Hi mate i got my rock on Tuesday this week and my levels are exactly the same lol
Id say 0.5 ammonia if that very very pale green
and 0 nitrite and nitrate
I was worried mine was dead or something as i bought it off the net of someone who was keeping it in salt water for me till i returned from my holiday
it was wrapped up wet in a fish bucket on the sunday and came to me on the tuesday morning, dry at the top (allthough it was covered in wet material) moist in the middle and still in water at the bottom.
however started to notice bristle worms and thing so should be good

 

[lgarvey]

Hi mate i got my rock on Tuesday this week and my levels are exactly the same lol
Id say 0.5 ammonia if that very very pale green
and 0 nitrite and nitrate
I was worried mine was dead or something as i bought it off the net of someone who was keeping it in salt water for me till i returned from my holiday
it was wrapped up wet in a fish bucket on the sunday and came to me on the tuesday morning, dry at the top (allthough it was covered in wet material) moist in the middle and still in water at the bottom.
however started to notice bristle worms and thing so should be good

Bristleworms - argh.

Yeh, well, I'm going to keep checking it but I reckon it'll be ready for CuC soon at this rate. I'm concerned that the nitrifying bacteria might die off / back if there's not a sustained ammonia source. If my thinking is correct.

How big is your tank rl1oyd?

 

[rl1oyd]

720litres mate
6'6"x2x2

 

[lgarvey]

720litres mate
6'6"x2x2

Wow, you're going to be able to get some fish in there. And I suspect with the amount of LR you will get a load of worms and so on. Hopefully my meager 5kgs of LR isn't loaded with 'em.

 

[rl1oyd]

lol
Im not really bothered by them, done some research people don’t like them as they eat live rock but I would need thousands and thousands to eat all the rock lol
Mostly they eat waste and stuff and are more beneficial than harmful

 

[seffieuk]

Im not really bothered by them, done some research people don’t like them as they eat live rock but I would need thousands and thousands to eat all the rock lol

ehhh, who told you that they eat detritus not live rock

Seffie x

 

[rl1oyd]

a web site i was lookin on
I was likening them to marine wood worm lol

 

[lgarvey]

a web site i was lookin on
I was likening them to marine wood worm lol

Haha - well, they do live in holes in the rock. So perhaps they are like rock worm to a degree, even if they aren't actively eating it.

I tested my water again today. No change. No ammonia, no nitrite and 2mg/l nitrate. It's atypical, I know but nothing obvious is happening with the stats and it's been this way since I started testing over a week ago. I added the live rock last Thursday, so this is the 11th day. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

So I went to the LFS today and bought the CuC along with some extra water in case the params fluctuate at all. I bought: -

1 x emrald crab
2 x small orange legged hermits (I wanted dwarf blue, but this is all they had)
2 x nasarious snails
1 x skunk cleaner shrimp

Since feeding the tank today, I've also noticed a 2" bristle worm and two fan worms. Surprisingly though, in-spite of my worm phobia, I find the bristle worm kind of cool! So he can stay.

The snails are COMICAL. As soon as I put them in the tank, one snail ran over a hermit crab. And they're all over the. They'll bury themselves, then emerge for a bit and run all over the place. The emrald crab is also seriously cool and fun to watch, as are the hermits. I'm surprised at how enjoyable and satisfying the inverts are!

I asked the LFS how long until I can begin stocking with fish and he said to leave the tank for 3 months to allow everything to get really bedded in. Firstly, because I haven't noticed the normal process of "cycling" with the live rock, I'll leave the tank for longer than usual to ensure the params are fairly stable. But I can't see the benefit in leaving it for a solid 3 months, IF, the amount of nitrifying bacteria in the tank is dependent on the bioload. Or am I missing something here? Three months also seems odd, given it takes about 6 weeks for the biofilter to colonise if doing a cycle with fish.

Do you understand the rationale for leaving it for 3 months? Are there additional cycles, or does the nitrifying bacteria actually get more effective over time, and perhaps more "stable" or something even if there is a fairly low bio load? I'll take your advice re's further stocking whilst checking the params daily. I am also feeding the tank "crab cuisine" about 3 pellets a day from now on, as per the LFS guys directions, so if the tank is still too immature for a CuC and the params are going to change it'll happen in the next day or so.

Cheers,
L

 

[seffieuk]

a web site i was lookin on
I was likening them to marine wood worm lol

Haha - well, they do live in holes in the rock. So perhaps they are like rock worm to a degree, even if they aren't actively eating it.



I tested my water again today. No change. No ammonia, no nitrite and 2mg/l nitrate. It's atypical, I know but nothing obvious is happening with the stats and it's been this way since I started testing over a week ago. I added the live rock last Thursday, so this is the 11th day. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

yes, it happens

So I went to the LFS today and bought the CuC along with some extra water in case the params fluctuate at all. I bought: -

1 x emrald crab
2 x small orange legged hermits (I wanted dwarf blue, but this is all they had)
2 x nasarious snails
1 x skunk cleaner shrimp

Since feeding the tank today, I've also noticed a 2" bristle worm and two fan worms. Surprisingly though, in-spite of my worm phobia, I find the bristle worm kind of cool! So he can stay.

I agree, they are kinda cool

The snails are COMICAL. As soon as I put them in the tank, one snail ran over a hermit crab. And they're all over the. They'll bury themselves, then emerge for a bit and run all over the place. The emrald crab is also seriously cool and fun to watch, as are the hermits. I'm surprised at how enjoyable and satisfying the inverts are!

they are funny, make sure you have got some spare shells in the tank for the hermits

I asked the LFS how long until I can begin stocking with fish and he said to leave the tank for 3 months to allow everything to get really bedded in. Firstly, because I haven't noticed the normal process of "cycling" with the live rock, I'll leave the tank for longer than usual to ensure the params are fairly stable. But I can't see the benefit in leaving it for a solid 3 months, IF, the amount of nitrifying bacteria in the tank is dependent on the bioload. Or am I missing something here? Three months also seems odd, given it takes about 6 weeks for the biofilter to colonise if doing a cycle with fish.

Total rubbish - if your stats stay the same after a week with the cuc, go ahead a get your first fish or even a pair if getting clowns

Do you understand the rationale for leaving it for 3 months? Are there additional cycles, or does the nitrifying bacteria actually get more effective over time, and perhaps more "stable" or something even if there is a fairly low bio load? I'll take your advice re's further stocking whilst checking the params daily. I am also feeding the tank "crab cuisine" about 3 pellets a day from now on, as per the LFS guys directions, so if the tank is still too immature for a CuC and the params are going to change it'll happen in the next day or so.

Forget anything lfs says stop feeding for the moment if you have any sign of diatoms, algae etc - they will eat that all up for you, however, if you feed them too much they will not do the work they are intended for ie: cuc you can drop a couple of pellets in about 2 x a week for now

Cheers,
L

Seffie x

 

[lgarvey]

Cheers Seffie.

I'll have to source another LFS, because the one I go to they're all aware of the fact I have a new set-up. and I'll end up in a big debate. They're adamant that a 3 month wait (either with corals and nothing else for reef), or with inverts only, is how it is done. It doesn't make much sense though!

L