toshapetriji
Fish Crazy
Perfect 
Lowisuzu's Tank Odyssey
- Thread starter LowIsuzu
- Start date
Perfect
which part of what i said is perfect? are those levels looking ok now?
should i be just doing small water changes every day for the time being? keeping those levels down?
i think i'll go re-read the cycling with fish thread if i can find it...
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
Hi there, what a shame to have to start this way, but rest assured you are not the first and will not be the last to get this sort of 'advice and help' from the fish shop 
The good thing being you're in the right place, listening to advice and obviously willing to learn and do what you can to have a sucessful fishkeeping experience, and we will give you all the help that we can to get you through this.
However there is no point sugaring the pill as it were, I always take the approach of honesty, apologies if this comes across as blunt but I would rather you go into this with your eyes wide open than harbouring false illusions.
The neon does not sound good, all his tail eaten away is a very bad thing, you may find you need to choose to euthanaise him, don't rush in we'll try to treat first but prepare yourself for this possibility, we can also help you on humane euthanasia if it comes to it. Can you try and get a close up picture of this so we can diagnose the problem (it will certainly be linked to the cycling tank however this could have triggered a couple of different problems so it's important to identify exactly what disease/situation he is in)?
As WD has said, the serpae's hiding away there is not a good sign either.
Your immediate focus should be water quality, keep doing water changes and monitoring the water, you should try to keep ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 as possible, definatley below 0.25ppm. Just do as many or as large water changes as you need to to achieve this.
The ammonia in your tap water will be a limiting factor, quite a few people have some and it's not a long term issue. Once the tank is mature it will be able to handle the small amount of ammonia added in when you do a water change, the issue is when the tank is not cycled the filter can't handle the extra ammonia. So it's a case of monitoring tap and tank water's ammonia, obviously if you have 0.5ppm of ammonia in the tap water then no amount of water changes will get it below 0.5 in the tank until it's cycled. If you get to the point where the tap water has a higher ammonia content than the tank then water changes may become redundant, HOWEVER you must also factor in the nitrite, when you get to this point the ammonia eating bacteria will have grown to a point that they can handle the extra ammonia added in from the tap water, or at least some of it. If you have 1ppm of nitrite in the tank and 0 in the tap then the purpose of the water changes switches from being to reduce ammonia to being to reduce nitrite. So I think that makes sense.... let me know if not!?
Keep a record of all your test results and what you have done each day, fish added, water changed etc etc. If we need to work out where you are or diagnose any problems the more info you can give us the better so this will be a considerable help. Lots of people keep a small notebook or a spreadsheet with test results.
As WD said, read some of the links in my sig, most important one for now is 'whats cycling', I'd also recommend you read through the step by step guide to setting up an aquarium, I know yours is already set up but it covers a lot of points so there may be some things you have missed.
Don't try tinkering with the pH just yet, but do monitor it, the good thing is your tap water pH is 7.4 which is absolutley fine, as you're doing lots of water changes it should keep coming up to near that level. If it drops close to or below 6 then post up and let us know, we'll advise from there.
The good thing being you're in the right place, listening to advice and obviously willing to learn and do what you can to have a sucessful fishkeeping experience, and we will give you all the help that we can to get you through this.
However there is no point sugaring the pill as it were, I always take the approach of honesty, apologies if this comes across as blunt but I would rather you go into this with your eyes wide open than harbouring false illusions.
The neon does not sound good, all his tail eaten away is a very bad thing, you may find you need to choose to euthanaise him, don't rush in we'll try to treat first but prepare yourself for this possibility, we can also help you on humane euthanasia if it comes to it. Can you try and get a close up picture of this so we can diagnose the problem (it will certainly be linked to the cycling tank however this could have triggered a couple of different problems so it's important to identify exactly what disease/situation he is in)?
As WD has said, the serpae's hiding away there is not a good sign either.
Your immediate focus should be water quality, keep doing water changes and monitoring the water, you should try to keep ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 as possible, definatley below 0.25ppm. Just do as many or as large water changes as you need to to achieve this.
The ammonia in your tap water will be a limiting factor, quite a few people have some and it's not a long term issue. Once the tank is mature it will be able to handle the small amount of ammonia added in when you do a water change, the issue is when the tank is not cycled the filter can't handle the extra ammonia. So it's a case of monitoring tap and tank water's ammonia, obviously if you have 0.5ppm of ammonia in the tap water then no amount of water changes will get it below 0.5 in the tank until it's cycled. If you get to the point where the tap water has a higher ammonia content than the tank then water changes may become redundant, HOWEVER you must also factor in the nitrite, when you get to this point the ammonia eating bacteria will have grown to a point that they can handle the extra ammonia added in from the tap water, or at least some of it. If you have 1ppm of nitrite in the tank and 0 in the tap then the purpose of the water changes switches from being to reduce ammonia to being to reduce nitrite. So I think that makes sense.... let me know if not!?
Keep a record of all your test results and what you have done each day, fish added, water changed etc etc. If we need to work out where you are or diagnose any problems the more info you can give us the better so this will be a considerable help. Lots of people keep a small notebook or a spreadsheet with test results.
As WD said, read some of the links in my sig, most important one for now is 'whats cycling', I'd also recommend you read through the step by step guide to setting up an aquarium, I know yours is already set up but it covers a lot of points so there may be some things you have missed.
Don't try tinkering with the pH just yet, but do monitor it, the good thing is your tap water pH is 7.4 which is absolutley fine, as you're doing lots of water changes it should keep coming up to near that level. If it drops close to or below 6 then post up and let us know, we'll advise from there.
Excellent, thanks for your input.
i have gone over many of the cycling and beginner threads including those in your sig MW, all of these have started to make sense.
over the next few days i will continue to do small water changes, testing and keeping notes of all the results i find.
i will get back to you with a picture of the tailless neon. the only concern i have about his kicking th bucket is that the last neon left would be a lonely one.
the serpae seemed to have lightened up a bit and are all swimming around with each other.
thats all for now.
until next time...
i have gone over many of the cycling and beginner threads including those in your sig MW, all of these have started to make sense.
over the next few days i will continue to do small water changes, testing and keeping notes of all the results i find.
i will get back to you with a picture of the tailless neon. the only concern i have about his kicking th bucket is that the last neon left would be a lonely one.
the serpae seemed to have lightened up a bit and are all swimming around with each other.
thats all for now.
until next time...
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
good, sometimes they take a couple of reads to get the hang of it, just give us a shout if you are unsure of anything in them.
yes the remainign tetra would not be happy by himself, however the water quality is a much bigger issue than the shoal size, it's a case of get the tank cycled and the water quality sorted, then worry about the other things afterwards.
22/07/08
Aquarium Water
PH - 6.5
GH - ???
Ammonia - 0.4ppm
Nitrite - 0.25
Nitrate - 0.25
Aquarium Water after 20% Water Change.
PH - 6.5
GH - ???
Ammonia - 0.3ppm
Nitrite - 0.0.225
Nitrate - 0.25
i dont see a considerate change in those levels after the water change. ah well, keep on truckin.
Aquarium Water
PH - 6.5
GH - ???
Ammonia - 0.4ppm
Nitrite - 0.25
Nitrate - 0.25
Aquarium Water after 20% Water Change.
PH - 6.5
GH - ???
Ammonia - 0.3ppm
Nitrite - 0.0.225
Nitrate - 0.25
i dont see a considerate change in those levels after the water change. ah well, keep on truckin.
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
yeah sometimes the small changes don't seem to make a massive difference, you just need to step up the water changes to a higher level, try a 50% water change and see what that does
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
good, got the nitrite down at least?
uhhh.. ooops. looks like where i have been writing 0.25 for Nitrate, its meant to be 2.5, the colour looks to be between the top two colours. 
Wow! i must be really getting into this, i just wrote up an excel spreadsheet to note down all my test readings.
i like to have pictures of everything too, just in case
Wow! i must be really getting into this, i just wrote up an excel spreadsheet to note down all my test readings.
i like to have pictures of everything too, just in case
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Good, looks like the 50% change was a better idea, despite the ammonia in the tap water. That seems to have brought the nitrite down to zero and only left you with 0.25 ammonia, which is probably the best that can be expected if the tap consistently puts that out. The fish will be much happier with ammonia and nitrite down in this range and the serpae should show more curiosity about their tank now.
Couple of unimportant details, just for your info: You don't need to be measuring or showing us GH (general hardness) on a regular basis. Its not usually an item that will be acted upon. For your nitrate tests, no worry about smaller detailed numbers, we usually only think about these in "10s" (like is it 10, 20, 40, 80? etc.) and you don't need to be doing these (nitrate (NO3)) every time around but when you do perform that test, be very careful to observe all the timing and shaking details, using a timer. You should find a shortcut reminder of the procedure on the back of the nitrate color card.
~~waterdrop~~
Couple of unimportant details, just for your info: You don't need to be measuring or showing us GH (general hardness) on a regular basis. Its not usually an item that will be acted upon. For your nitrate tests, no worry about smaller detailed numbers, we usually only think about these in "10s" (like is it 10, 20, 40, 80? etc.) and you don't need to be doing these (nitrate (NO3)) every time around but when you do perform that test, be very careful to observe all the timing and shaking details, using a timer. You should find a shortcut reminder of the procedure on the back of the nitrate color card.
~~waterdrop~~
I have to say, that since i have been doing regular testing and water changes, my fish seem to be a whole lot happier, swimming around a lot more chasing each other, whereas before they just sat around, swimming on the same spot, most of the day. i can only guess the water changes have caused this, nothing else has changed.
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
looks like my ph level is dropping during the day (down to 6.5), but when i do a water change at night, the PH comes back up to about 7 cos of the ph of 7.4 of my tap water. should the ph be dropping by itself? what could cause this to drop?
i had a minor trace of ammonia and nitrate before water change tonight, and now all levels are at 0.
i had a minor trace of ammonia and nitrate before water change tonight, and now all levels are at 0.
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