Lowering Ph

[gennine]

i have done a little research, and i realise that lowering ph is generally not recommended but..

i overdtocked the tank, and have had high ammonia levels, which i have been dealing with as nessary
i know what i have done wrong and i am taking the nessary steps to sort things out.

if i lowered my ph, ammonia levels would be reduced. right? - it would make it easier for me to read my chart, - the reradings would have a broader range, and i could measure the ammonia levels more accurately. at the moment, its either 0 or 0.6 as the ph is so high reading at a ph 8. i use liquid test kits and they are hard to judge when you only got choice of 2 readings. i hope someone understands what i am trying to say!
if i lowred ph i feel things would be more manageable.
i know that this i not recommended, and can cause stress to the fish and must be done slowly.
I am only exploring my avenues and doing some research.
What are your thoughts people?

genie x

 

[chrisdoesntmiss]

Close, but sorry its just that ammonia is less toxic to fish at that level, add some zeolite to your filter, that will absorb the ammonia temporarily, giving the filter a chance to catch up, after a few days remove the zeolite and ensure that they ammonia reads 0. It looks like you will have to give up the plecs i am afraid, if they are common plecs they will reach about 15 inches.

There is no need to try and lower ph, as you will have to ensure it always remains lower, your fish will far prefer a stable ph than one that swings.

Also water changes will remove ammonia very quickly, just ensure its not cold, match the temperature, dechlorinate and aerate well.

Chris

 

[Bignose]

You know what would lower the ammonia levels much easier than trying to lower the pH? Water changes!

Lots of them!

Match the temp of the tank water, and the pH and the hardness and you're all set -- if the water is coming all from the same tap, the pH and the hardness should be close enough.

So, match the temp, and do some large water changes! 50% or more!

That will lower the ammonia the quickest and really the safest way.

Once you've done a water change (if this this a problem you have right now) then you can read some of my previous articles about this:

http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/15...Ammonia-Charts/
and
http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/22...cling-Are-Good/

 

[rdd1952]

The ammonia level would not be reduced, just less toxic. The test kit e use measure total ammonia which is ammonia + ammonium (non-toxic) syou would still get the same reading but it would be less toxic. SInce you say it is between 0 and .6, it isn't estremely high but at a pH of 8 it is muh worse than normalfor that reading. I wouldn't try to change the pH as that would be just another item to cause stress with your fish if suddenly the pH was changing too much. Just do a large 50% WC and that should get you to .25 ppm or less. Keep doing them daily or twice a day to keep the level as low as possible.

As an additional item to the pH/ammonia relationship, here is a good thread that Bignose did.

 

[gennine]

duuude!
thanks for your thoughts!
i planning to upgrade to a 30g tank soon to home my plecs (cat and dog!)
i have been changing 4g water -(heated, treated and aerated) i treat the tank as 8 g giving for gravels and decor.
i was badly advised about my gouramis and unfortunatly one passed away - as a result of stress and high ammonia. i have since learnt alot about them. i wont make the same mistake again.

the problem with reading the chart is that 0.6 by ph8 is not on the chart - it is just off. i was told at the forum that ammonia was critical. some fisshies are showing stress. and i have been changing the water at least 4 times a week at 4g.

i figured the response would probably be to leave it and continue changing water.

like i said the readings do not show on my chart and make things awkward.

what exactly is zeolite??

thankyou for your thoughts guys

ill just contnue changing the water..

 

[chrisdoesntmiss]

Its called ammo-chips in pets @ home, its is a whitish-grey rock that will absorb it, others can give you better details than I on its composition.

Chris

Still sorry but the plecs need a lot larger space unless they are bristlenose - even then they want more space to be truly happy.

 

[gennine]

thanks

 

[rdd1952]

The best thing you can do for now is get a product like Ammo-Lock that detoxifies ammonia. While I am not a proponent of using chemicals, it will at least reduce the risk of ammonia poisoning. One dose locks up to 3 ppm of ammonia and makes in non-toxic while the filter removes it. Beware though that it does not work on ammonia produced later by the fish and also will not protect them from nitrite which will be your nest problem as it too is toxic and is a by-product of ammonia processing.

Also, I would advise against the ammo-chips (or any other product that says it "removes" or "absorbs" ammonia). They absorb ammonia and do not allow the filter to process it thus the bacteria colony does not form and your tank never cycles. You will be dependent on using the chips all the time to prevent ammonia build ups. The chips also become saturated and ust be changed or recharged.

 

[poopsydrew]

They absorb ammonia and do not allow the filter to process it thus the bacteria colony does not form and your tank never cycles. You will be dependent on using the chips all the time to prevent ammonia build ups. The chips also become saturated and ust be changed or recharged.

Im just being a stickler here but isnt the correct term aDsorb instead of aBsorb? I could be wrong but I was under the impression all of the "chips" (carbon, zeolite, etc) aDsorb chemicals thus causing the leaching later. Am i wrong?

Drew

 

[chrisdoesntmiss]

If you use the ammo chips to remove some of the ammonia it will still allow the filter to build itself up without causing a major problem to the fish.

Did the tank fully cycle?

Chris

 

[Bignose]

If you use the ammo chips to remove some of the ammonia it will still allow the filter to build itself up without causing a major problem to the fish.

Did the tank fully cycle?

Chris

Or you could do WATER CHANGES! Why worry about spending more money on a product that won't work for very long, won't help your tank cycle, and give you a false impression of what's going on in the tank.

Do water changes, as often as needed to keep the levels of ammonia down.

Look, I wrote an entire article on this: It's called "Why Doing Water Changes During Cycling is Good" http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/22...cling-Are-Good/

The only negative against water changes is the extra work -- but it is the best way to go, in my mind.

 

[Bignose]

They absorb ammonia and do not allow the filter to process it thus the bacteria colony does not form and your tank never cycles. You will be dependent on using the chips all the time to prevent ammonia build ups. The chips also become saturated and ust be changed or recharged.

Im just being a stickler here but isnt the correct term aDsorb instead of aBsorb? I could be wrong but I was under the impression all of the "chips" (carbon, zeolite, etc) aDsorb chemicals thus causing the leaching later. Am i wrong?

Drew

absorbing typically doesn't involve a phase change, while adsorbing does. There is a more technical definition, but that one works most of the time.

Ammo chip and carbon form a bond with the chemical, so the chemical leaves the aqueous phase and becomes part of the solid, so it is called adsorption.

Water enters the matrix of a sponge, but it remains a liquid, so a sponge absorbs water.

All that said, I don't think that the b versus the d is really critical to get correct. We all know what is being talked about here. But, I know where you're coming from pd, since I can be a stickler about some things too... like pH. I hate it when people don't write litte p big H. or write Ph -- ugh. I feel just a little sick even writing that.

 

[backtotropical]

Or you could do WATER CHANGES! Why worry about spending more money on a product that won't work for very long, won't help your tank cycle, and give you a false impression of what's going on in the tank.

Do water changes, as often as needed to keep the levels of ammonia down.

This is the best advice anyone will give you. Take heed!

Water changes are the safest, cheapest and most reliable way of maintaining a healthy tank.

 

[Iron Man]

There is nothing wrong with using ammo-chips along with water changes. In fact you can use ammo-chips and not worry so much about water changes until your filter can cycle. If you're willing to be really safe about it this is what you can do.

Put a specified about of ammo-chips (which is zeolite at a cheap price) in your filter in a mesh bag or use some stocking hose. You should now be able to reduce your water changes by at least half. Give the zeolite 2 to 4 weeks in your filter before changing it, but when put fresh new zeolite in it, put only half the amount in that you did previously.

If the tank has not cycled because of the zeolite then it will cycle now but at safe levels for your fish and without all the water changes.

And the next time it comes to change it just take it out.

Because of the use of zeolite I was able to instantly fully stock tanks on 2 different occasions with the above method and it was a great success.

 

[poopsydrew]

They absorb ammonia and do not allow the filter to process it thus the bacteria colony does not form and your tank never cycles. You will be dependent on using the chips all the time to prevent ammonia build ups. The chips also become saturated and ust be changed or recharged.

Im just being a stickler here but isnt the correct term aDsorb instead of aBsorb? I could be wrong but I was under the impression all of the "chips" (carbon, zeolite, etc) aDsorb chemicals thus causing the leaching later. Am i wrong?

Drew

absorbing typically doesn't involve a phase change, while adsorbing does. There is a more technical definition, but that one works most of the time.

Ammo chip and carbon form a bond with the chemical, so the chemical leaves the aqueous phase and becomes part of the solid, so it is called adsorption.

Water enters the matrix of a sponge, but it remains a liquid, so a sponge absorbs water.

All that said, I don't think that the b versus the d is really critical to get correct. We all know what is being talked about here. But, I know where you're coming from pd, since I can be a stickler about some things too... like pH. I hate it when people don't write litte p big H. or write Ph -- ugh. I feel just a little sick even writing that.

Thanks for clearing that up BN, your knowledge is never ending. I was just curious as to the correct usage.

Drew