Lost In Translation

[Deleted member 149562]

I believe people have grown a habit of selective memory when it suits them...

Amazing Grace

It has been heavily sanitised over the years. The art of selective memory is in absolute overdrive with Amazing Grace.

Is it an anthem?

Often used as one but it certainly should not be.

Written by John Newton...who as the selective memory states was wholy and totally against the slave trade.

Absolutely incorrect.

He worked as a crewman on slavers ships. He became a Christian after surviving a bad storm at sea in 1748 at the age of 23. He then went back to sea as a crewman on slavers ships, working up to becoming a captain of slavers ships and did not actually quit working on slavers ships until 1754 after suffering a stroke.

He continued to invest heavily in slaver shipping companies long after entering the Priesthood and being ordained as a Priest.

He wrote Amazing Grace in 1772, did still not question the morality of slavery and continued to invest in the trade until 1780.

He did not stop investing and only became an active anti-slave trade advocate until 1788 when it became almost fashionable (aka bandwagon) to protest against the trade and use of slaves.

In regard to "cancel culture" and history manipulation to suit a fashionable thought/bandwagon, it is nothing new. However, as with the perfectly respectable nickname of its time, Coo Li, the use of words, music and other every day things have been manipulated to offend where there has never been offence and to celebrate where no celebration should be made.

Social media definitely has a strong realtionship with history manipulation where the offending becomes fashionable and many of those who jump on those bandwagons only do it cos celebs do it...but neither they or the celebs that they follow rarely ever know or bother to research the truth behind what is allegedly offensive.

 

[Oblio]

The OK sign has been used for a long time and I used it a lot. But some random dude HAD to make it a white supremacist sign... I've had to stop myself multiple times from using it cause it was just natural for me.

You do know that the OK sign as a white supremist sign was a 4chan member trolling and not an actual 'thing'

 

[Rocky998]

You do know that the OK sign as a white supremist sign was a 4chan member trolling and not an actual 'thing'

But then it was turned to a hate sign in 2017

 

[Oblio]

Use of derogatory words is NOT acceptable even if they used to be good.

I disagree and call Shenanigans (apologies to any Irish ), I refuse to let certain groups redefine words and then tell me I can't use them because it is now offensive to them.

 

[Rocky998]

I disagree and call Shenanigans (apologies to any Irish ), I refuse to let certain groups redefine words and then tell me I can't use them because it is now offensive to them.

Mk... Thank you for looking out for other people's feeling then

 

[Oblio]

But then it was turned to a hate sign in 2017

Nope, it was a troll. I refuse to not use it when appropriate.
BTW, this is the sign used while SCUBA diving to indicate that you are, well, OK The thumps-up sign is used to indicate, wait for it ..., surface.

 

[Rocky998]

Nope, it was a troll. I refuse to not use it when appropriate.
BTW, this is the sign used while SCUBA diving to indicate that you are, well, OK The thumps-up sign is used to indicate, wait for it ..., surface.

Yes but I don't use it because I look out for how other's feeling may be hurt. Imagine I'm in a town with mostly African Americans and I'm there with a friend and then I decide to give the "ok" sign to him... Imagine what some of the town's people may think... I would have been using it in a good way but that doesn't matter.

 

[Oblio]

Mk... Thank you for looking out for other people's feeling then

It's not about feelings, it's the deliberate redefinition of words and then dictating how they can and cannot be used that I will not abide by. There is a litany of such words which I will not list.

Suppose that the word Fish was appropriated by some group to mean (insert new derogatory definition here) and you were told that you could no longer use that term as a reference to fish as it was offensive to this group?

 

[Rocky998]

It's not about feelings, it's the deliberate redefinition of words and then dictating how they can and cannot be used that I will not abide by. There is a litany of such words which I will not list.

Suppose that the word Fish was appropriated by some group to mean (insert new derogatory definition here) and you were told that you could no longer use that term as a reference to fish as it was offensive to this group?

I would try not to use that word. I would be mad and irritated it was changed but out of respect I would do my best not to use it

 

[GaryE]

When I was a kid, you couldn't wear a brown shirt or part your hair on the side without the WW2 veterans getting testy about it. In other regions, blackshirts, the other fascist uniform, was also out.
Originally, they were both ordinary, but they were given meaning for a generation, and I wasn't the least bit oppressed feeling for respecting that. By the time I was 20, no one worried about either anymore. I got a bad haircut and some ugly clothes.
Original meanings or origins don't matter except to people who have researched them. Even then, there are no time machines to take us back to when these things were nothing.

If I get invited to a Church, I check out the etiquette for that denomination and do my best to follow it. I'm not a Christian, but the people in the church are supposed to be, so why be rude? I see a lot of people who think being polite is gutless. It isn't. It's polite. I think it's important to look at context, where you are, and adapt yourself. Making people adapt to you is a dead end. Oh, and get killifish or you're a loser

The censorship issue with words needs thinking about. It all depends on whether you care. I can find ways of saying things that skirt around words I don't like. I don't want to be misunderstood, and since I am in command of my own brain, I get to choose my words. I can't choose yours. There, I just get to keep my mouth shut and judge, or, if your intent is malicious, maybe make something of it. I don't want to be a bloody (by our Lady, a cleaned up religious curse) blighter (one who intentionally spread potato blight). My great grandmother had the best curses...

 

[Rocky998]

When I was a kid, you couldn't wear a brown shirt or part your hair on the side without the WW2 veterans getting testy about it. In other regions, blackshirts, the other fascist uniform, was also out.
Originally, they were both ordinary, but they were given meaning for a generation, and I wasn't the least bit oppressed feeling for respecting that. By the time I was 20, no one worried about either anymore. I got a bad haircut and some ugly clothes.
Original meanings or origins don't matter except to people who have researched them. Even then, there are no time machines to take us back to when these things were nothing.

If I get invited to a Church, I check out the etiquette for that denomination and do my best to follow it. I'm not a Christian, but the people in the church are supposed to be, so why be rude? I see a lot of people who think being polite is gutless. It isn't. It's polite. I think it's important to look at context, where you are, and adapt yourself. Making people adapt to you is a dead end. Oh, and get killifish or you're a loser

The censorship issue with words needs thinking about. It all depends on whether you care. I can find ways of saying things that skirt around words I don't like. I don't want to be misunderstood, and since I am in command of my own brain, I get to choose my words. I can't choose yours. There, I just get to keep my mouth shut and judge, or, if your intent is malicious, maybe make something of it. I don't want to be a bloody (by our Lady, a cleaned up religious curse) blighter (one who intentionally spread potato blight). My great grandmother had the best curses...

Exactly. Always best to be respectful in the best way you know how to be.

 

[Alice B]

Yes very true. But if "everyone" was like that... What a boring world it would be

I like boring. I grew up listening to way to much yelling and hate speech as soon as I had a high school diploma I moved 1700 miles away and I'm still not talking to my family. It's been well I will draw social security in a couple of years. I like quiet, boring, fish, dogs, books, plants, gardens ponds. And people that like the same. And I am very boring.

 

[Oblio]

I would try not to use that word. I would be mad and irritated it was changed but out of respect I would do my best not to use it

The problem with that is that it enables those who wish to maliciously undermine society to control the language, and a free people. There is a good reason (in the US) why there is a First Amendment.

 

[Guyb93]

I see both sides , if I can make people feel comfortable by not doing a certain thing or saying a certain thing and the reasoning is valid I will do so , if a certain percentage of the population decide they are going to be offended by an action or a word that has no relevance i would over use that word or action just to irritate them , if my clothes offend your place of worship then your not people I want to be worshiping with if a hand signal has ruined your day then good ! I won’t apologise for your mentality

 

[GaryE]

The problem with that is that it enables those who wish to maliciously undermine society to control the language, and a free people. There is a good reason (in the US) why there is a First Amendment.

So we do the flip test. Not challenging hate language enables those who wish to maliciously control society to control the people, and attack the freedoms of target minorities. It can be argued both ways, and as such, it isn't some great big overarching principle. It seems a straw man used by the propaganda networks to get people riled up, actually.