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Losing fish, advice appreciated

Pictures of the fish?
What is the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH of the tank water?

How often do you do water changes and how much water do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?

What sort of filter is on/ in the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?
 
Are you experiencing the drop in nitrates in the tank through the media you are using? I'm familiar with the technique (I have Seachem Matrix trying to achieve the same result) but its often a bit of a mixed bag in terms of if its going to happen or not. It may come down to you having soft water but I'm not sure. I think its just hard to get aerobic and anaerobic bacteria growing so close to each other, some people here have done trickle filters or sand bed filters to achieve this separate to their main filtration with anaerobic filtration. But you are correct I thought from your post that you were changing the bio media rather than the mechanical sponges, flosses etc so thats good to clarify

I use Biohome Ultimate. It was custom designed by Richard Thew, who is a humble expert on these matters, not to mention a really great guy, always happy to help. His company is UK-based, so that may be a limiting factor, but there are other media which are built with the same object in mind. Continuum Aquatics' exxodus BAC is US-made, and looks like it has been designed with a similar function in mind. It might well be less expensive, too.

If you watch 'pimp my filter' on YouTube, by Pond Guru, and look up the Aquel Ultramax 2000, that's the filter I use, though with a booster. Richard's explanation of how filtration actually works revolutionised my aquarium behaviour. I now run a complete nitrogen cycle, and I understand the ecosystem of my tank.

Doesn't make it plain sailing, though!
 
I use Biohome Ultimate. It was custom designed by Richard Thew, who is a humble expert on these matters, not to mention a really great guy, always happy to help. His company is UK-based, so that may be a limiting factor, but there are other media which are built with the same object in mind. Continuum Aquatics' exxodus BAC is US-made, and looks like it has been designed with a similar function in mind. It might well be less expensive, too.

If you watch 'pimp my filter' on YouTube, by Pond Guru, and look up the Aquel Ultramax 2000, that's the filter I use, though with a booster. Richard's explanation of how filtration actually works revolutionised my aquarium behaviour. I now run a complete nitrogen cycle, and I understand the ecosystem of my tank.

Doesn't make it plain sailing, though!
Yeah I subscribe to Pond Guru :) I remember when he first appeared with his products, people were pretty sceptical but some members here have used the products and like I say some have had good results others saw no change. My concern around your filter media was when I was thinking you had changed your bio media at some point in the last few months but I know it was your mechanical now.

Still curious to know if you see any fluctuations in your Gh or your Ph through the week between water changes.

Wills
 
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Looks like cottonmouth for this fellow. If this is an indicator of columnaris, then what are my treatment options? There is so much information online I don't know what to trust. Waterlife recommend Protozin for cottonmouth, but I'm not sure if that's to deal with secondary infections. I came across a few stories of cottonmouth clearing up with Protozin, too.

I don't know if narrow spectrum antibiotics are available to aquarists in the UK, and I don't want to endanger my beneficial bacteria.

Any thoughts?
 
View attachment 147816

Looks like cottonmouth for this fellow. If this is an indicator of columnaris, then what are my treatment options? There is so much information online I don't know what to trust. Waterlife recommend Protozin for cottonmouth, but I'm not sure if that's to deal with secondary infections. I came across a few stories of cottonmouth clearing up with Protozin, too.

I don't know if narrow spectrum antibiotics are available to aquarists in the UK, and I don't want to endanger my beneficial bacteria.

Any thoughts?
You said you had cardinals but this is a neon. There is a virus (different to neon tetra disease) that is effecting neons which looks like this. I haven't found a cure. If you had your fish whilst you were struggling to establish the cycle they will have been weakened.

KH dropped to 2 when I hadn't monitored it for a while. That was what alerted me to the issue.
So your concern is the KH will get too low to buffer the pH??
What was the pH and GH ?

There are members (@Byron, @seangee) who have low KH that do not buffer the water and the fish thrive. The key is stability.
 
You said you had cardinals but this is a neon. There is a virus (different to neon tetra disease) that is effecting neons which looks like this. I haven't found a cure. If you had your fish whilst you were struggling to establish the cycle they will have been weakened.


So your concern is the KH will get too low to buffer the pH??
What was the pH and GH ?

There are members (@Byron, @seangee) who have low KH that do not buffer the water and the fish thrive. The key is stability.
I have a few neons among my cardinals, I was just trying to give a general picture of the tank. The basic cycle has been in place for some time. It's the last part, that converts nitrate to nitrogen, that took some time to establish. I don't think there's any way of hurrying that up.

I lost two Rams a while back. They seemed like a contented pair, and when I tested the water the only issue was that KH was barely 2, as I said earlier. I can't find my test diary, but I think the pH was around 6.6-6.8.

It's my understanding that the KH value is a determinant of potential pH fluctuation, so I gradually adjusted it for that reason.
 
That pH is wholly suitable as long as it is stable. Zero KH would drop the pH but that is not happening according to your readings (I expect 6.6-6.8 is typical of your tap water in Edinburgh). I recommend that you don't adjust the parameters. Every water change would be an opportunity for a mistake and as you know, nature stabilises itself without our intervention where we let it.

I do not know of anyone who has succeeded in converting nitrate to gas in a freshwater aquarium. The oxygen levels prohibit it. I think you are chasing rainbows here. Even @AbbeysDad hasn't achieved this yet and he researches and writes articles about filtration. The way to control nitrates is maintenance (cleaning and water changes) and avoiding overfeeding. Plants help, and of course the water source is important. Do you have nitrate in your water source?
 
The white lip on the neon could be the start of mouth fungus (Columnaris) or it could be a bruise/ fat lip from bumping into something.

How long has the fish had the white lip?
If it has had it for more than 2 days and it hasn't spread during that time, it is a fat lip and should go down by itself in a few days to a week or so.

Waterlife Protozin does not treat Columnaris. You need anti-biotics for Columnaris.

I would wait and see how the neon progresses before adding medications. In the mean time, do big daily water changes, gravel clean the substrate each time you do a water change, and clean the filter. This will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide the fish with a cleaner environment to recover in. It also means if you have to treat the tank, there will be less gunk in it and the medication can work on the fish instead of the biofilm and micro-organisms in and on everything in the tank and filter.

Post pictures and video of the rest of your fish so we can check them for disease.
 
That pH is wholly suitable as long as it is stable. Zero KH would drop the pH but that is not happening according to your readings (I expect 6.6-6.8 is typical of your tap water in Edinburgh). I recommend that you don't adjust the parameters. Every water change would be an opportunity for a mistake and as you know, nature stabilises itself without our intervention where we let it.

I do not know of anyone who has succeeded in converting nitrate to gas in a freshwater aquarium. The oxygen levels prohibit it. I think you are chasing rainbows here. Even @AbbeysDad hasn't achieved this yet and he researches and writes articles about filtration. The way to control nitrates is maintenance (cleaning and water changes) and avoiding overfeeding. Plants help, and of course the water source is important. Do you have nitrate in your water source?

The key is in the biological filtration media, which is purpose-designed. It is made of sintered glass, infused with a long list of trace elements, all with the intent of enhancing bacterial growth, including anaerobic bacteria.

It is expensive, but 1Kg of it will, once established, fully process the bioload of approximately 100l of normally stocked community tank (I think that's roughly 2 lbs for every 25 gallons). These figures are obviously approximate, as different fish have different requirements. A goldfish tank would require double the amount of media, owing to the level of waste they produce, for example.

I set my tank up in February, using mature filter media from a previous tank to kick off the cycle. I wanted to have more biofiltration than I needed, as I'm not comfortable operating at the limits of my capability in anything I do. I have 7Kg of this media in an Aquael Ultramax 2000, which is purely devoted to biofiltration, since I installed a booster filter to handle the first, mechanical stage (the Ultramax 2000 has a pre-filter installed as well). The nitrate levels in my tank did not rise above 20 ppm until June, when I started regular monitoring, and small, partial water changes. They've never risen above 30ppm since set up.

I bought a Salifert nitrate test kit because the API one is a devil to read, and over the last two months I have determined that the denitrifying bacteria are fully established, as my nitrate levels have consistently shown up slightly paler than 5ppm. And, because of all the pre-filtration, I seldom need to open up my main filter, except for routine impeller cleaning, etc. The only time I test for nitrates now is a few days after such maintenance—a cautionary, owing to the sensitive nature of the anaerobes.

I am not alone. In the UK, there is a growing number of aquarists who are achieving a full nitrogen cycle, and I have come across other companies manufacturing similar products. However, I spent more money on the filter and biomedia than I did on the rest of the set up combined. It's not something everyone would be prepared to do, and it does take some financial commitment, but the media is designed to last for many years.

If you'd like to look into it, check out filterpro.co.uk. There are many educational video links on the site, too—it completely transformed my understanding of a self-contained aquatic ecosystem.
 
You do water changes for 2 main reasons.
1) to reduce nutrients like ammonia, nitrite & nitrate.
2) to dilute disease organisms in the water.

Fish live in a soup of microscopic organisms including bacteria, fungus, viruses, protozoans, worms, flukes and various other things that make your skin crawl. Doing a big water change and gravel cleaning the substrate on a regular basis will dilute these organisms and reduce their numbers in the water, thus making it a safer and healthier environment for the fish.

If you do a 25% water change each week you leave behind 75% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 50% water change each week you leave behind 50% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 75% water change each week you leave behind 25% of the bad stuff in the water.

Imagine living in your house with no windows, doors, toilet, bathroom or anything. You eat and poop in the environment and have no clean air. Eventually you end up living in your own filth, which would probably be made worse by you throwing up due to the smell. You would get sick very quickly and probably die unless someone came to clean up regularly and open the place up to let in fresh air.

Fish live in their own waste. Their tank and filter is full of fish poop. The water they breath is filtered through fish poop. Cleaning filters, gravel and doing big regular water changes, removes a lot of this poop and harmful micro-organisms, and makes the environment cleaner and healthier for the fish.

-------
Whilst you might not have ammonia, nitrite or nitrate problems, the number of micro-organisms in your tank will be growing exponentially due to lack of water changes and this will eventually cause problems to the fish. Water changes should be done to dilute disease organisms.
 
You do water changes for 2 main reasons.
1) to reduce nutrients like ammonia, nitrite & nitrate.
2) to dilute disease organisms in the water.

Fish live in a soup of microscopic organisms including bacteria, fungus, viruses, protozoans, worms, flukes and various other things that make your skin crawl. Doing a big water change and gravel cleaning the substrate on a regular basis will dilute these organisms and reduce their numbers in the water, thus making it a safer and healthier environment for the fish.

If you do a 25% water change each week you leave behind 75% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 50% water change each week you leave behind 50% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 75% water change each week you leave behind 25% of the bad stuff in the water.

Imagine living in your house with no windows, doors, toilet, bathroom or anything. You eat and poop in the environment and have no clean air. Eventually you end up living in your own filth, which would probably be made worse by you throwing up due to the smell. You would get sick very quickly and probably die unless someone came to clean up regularly and open the place up to let in fresh air.

Fish live in their own waste. Their tank and filter is full of fish poop. The water they breath is filtered through fish poop. Cleaning filters, gravel and doing big regular water changes, removes a lot of this poop and harmful micro-organisms, and makes the environment cleaner and healthier for the fish.

-------
Whilst you might not have ammonia, nitrite or nitrate problems, the number of micro-organisms in your tank will be growing exponentially due to lack of water changes and this will eventually cause problems to the fish. Water changes should be done to dilute disease organisms.
I don't expect the tank to maintain itself. The selection of caves, plants, wood, etc., that I used to create a pleasant environment for the fish, traps waste, and bits of plant, etc. I regularly clip a siphon tube to the nearest window and go seeking unwanted material with the other end, disturbing the substrate in order to siphon off anything cloudy. This usually results in about 25% water change, and on one occasion that figure reached about 40%.

A 40% water change makes me edgy, though. I do understand what you are saying, but I'm trying to reach a middle ground, where the ecosystem that sits at the core of the whole set up is minimally disrupted. It will be a life-long experiment, no matter what happens.

Thank you to everyone who offered advice. It's appreciated.
 
Stability is achieved with more water changes, not meaning more of them (though sometimes this is necessary) but larger volume WC's. Provided the GH and pH and temperature are reasonably the same between tap water and tank water, the more water you change the better. I aim for 50-70% once a week. You can read up on the benefits of this in my article on this forum, here:

With soft water fish species, you do not need to fuss over KH. If the GH is soft or very soft, leave well enough alone. The pH will stabilize accordingly.
 
I use Biohome Ultimate. It was custom designed by Richard Thew, who is a humble expert on these matters, not to mention a really great guy, always happy to help.
The 'Pond Guru' sells bio-home and the claims are large, but although there's some 'testimonials' there is little objective evidence that bio-home is any better than any of the other bio-media products with similar marketing hype. Check out the 'review' in the filter media section of the Aquarium Science website.
I do not know of anyone who has succeeded in converting nitrate to gas in a freshwater aquarium. The oxygen levels prohibit it. I think you are chasing rainbows here. Even @AbbeysDad hasn't achieved this yet and he researches and writes articles about filtration. The way to control nitrates is maintenance (cleaning and water changes) and avoiding overfeeding. Plants help, and of course the water source is important. Do you have nitrate in your water source?
I have spent years in research, study, and experiments with several approaches to culturing anoxic/anaerobic bacteria to convert nitrates into nitrogen gas. The challenge is in creating appropriate conditions in the highly oxygenated fresh water aquarium. See Filtration and Water Quality.
The key is in the biological filtration media, which is purpose-designed. It is made of sintered glass, infused with a long list of trace elements, all with the intent of enhancing bacterial growth, including anaerobic bacteria.
I have long since felt that all the marketing hype over commercial bio-media has been because it's just a cash cow for manufacturers. It doesn't help that most of them recommend replacing a portion of the media periodically as it's efficiency becomes dramatically reduced as it becomes coated with detritus. Like filter cartridges, there's money in consumables! There just doesn't seem to be a man made product like live rock in SW.

I think the real answer to nitrate reduction is not to have them in the first place. That's why fast growing floating plants are so valuable as they'll use ammonia as their nitrogen source (so it's never converted to nitrite and nitrates). In addition to Lowering Aquarium Nitrates, there's The Very Best Aquarium Filter. And hands down, the very best advice for continued high water quality is routine periodic partial water changes of sufficient frequency and volume...'the solution to pollution is dilution' and generally speaking, 'there's no such thing as too much clean, fresh water'. :)
 
The 'Pond Guru' sells bio-home and the claims are large, but although there's some 'testimonials' there is little objective evidence that bio-home is any better than any of the other bio-media products with similar marketing hype. Check out the 'review' in the filter media section of the Aquarium Science website.

I have spent years in research, study, and experiments with several approaches to culturing anoxic/anaerobic bacteria to convert nitrates into nitrogen gas. The challenge is in creating appropriate conditions in the highly oxygenated fresh water aquarium. See Filtration and Water Quality.

I have long since felt that all the marketing hype over commercial bio-media has been because it's just a cash cow for manufacturers. It doesn't help that most of them recommend replacing a portion of the media periodically as it's efficiency becomes dramatically reduced as it becomes coated with detritus. Like filter cartridges, there's money in consumables! There just doesn't seem to be a man made product like live rock in SW.

I think the real answer to nitrate reduction is not to have them in the first place. That's why fast growing floating plants are so valuable as they'll use ammonia as their nitrogen source (so it's never converted to nitrite and nitrates). In addition to Lowering Aquarium Nitrates, there's The Very Best Aquarium Filter. And hands down, the very best advice for continued high water quality is routine periodic partial water changes of sufficient frequency and volume...'the solution to pollution is dilution' and generally speaking, 'there's no such thing as too much clean, fresh water'. :)
I can testify to Biohome's effectiveness. There's no recommendation to replace any of the media, which has a predicted life of ten years or more. (I can't speak for any other manufacturer.) Richard, or Pond Guru, is available by phone any day of the week, just for general advice (he used to run an independent aquatics store). He is as genuine and helpful a person as I've come across.

Biohome Ultimate may not turn your aquarium into a some sort of wild ecosystem, but I am happier knowing that the waste in my tank is completing the nitrogen cycle. It might not matter as much to everyone, but I feel it is a step in the right direction, rather than accepting that your filter produces nitrates—which, if you use the media many filters come with, is exactly what your filter will do. That feeds into a bigger money spinner, all dependant on the consumer faithfully buying big name products, and following the instructions on the box. One thing that Pond Guru is doing is educating fishkeepers. While there may be a fair number of experts on this forum who don't need such advice, the average consumer who sets up an aquarium can benefit a lot from how the man explains filtration and the nitrogen cycle.
 
a fair number of experts on this forum who don't need such advice,
Most of the biggest experts (though too humble to ever label themselves as such) on this site - Colin, Byron, Abbey'sdad, have just given you advise to change (more) water. You do seem to appreciate them taking the time to explain, but I'm not sure you accept it.

That feeds into a bigger money spinner, all dependant on the consumer faithfully buying big name products, and following the instructions on the box.
The consistent advise on TFF is free and low tech. Use sponge filteration and live plants, do large regular water changes with minimal chemicals and treatments. Why do you think we are the ones that are falling victim to consumerism?

 

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