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Looking At Getting An Aquarium

Thomasino

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Hello all!
I've been reading up a bit on here and this site seems to have quite a few knowledgeable members with some good links and advice to give, so I decided to sign up. My name's Tom and I live in South Australia, Australia. I've got two LFS's that both have a decent range of products, and the smaller of the two is actually quite friendly and helpful (a family owned shop who have helped my mates with their tanks, without selling half the store to them!).
I'll first introduce myself a little. I'm currently studying 2nd year mechanical engineering (have two remaining after this year), so I'm usually pretty busy with that, but think having a tank would be a hobby that requires a routine, which may even help me organise myself with Uni, rather then my other interests (cars/drifting) which is more expensive and time consuming. I'm living at home while studying, I have an upstairs lounge room with a bathroom and two bedrooms also upstairs. Living in Australia it gets pretty hot in summer (its not uncommon to have a forecast for above 40 degrees C for the week, aka 104 degrees F), and the bedrooms get all the afternoon light, plus having upstairs, it gets rather hot. The lounge room however is quite cooler, which I think would suit an aquarium better. Plus I have a random 1.8mx1m indented corner which would fit an aquarium neatly. Doesn't get too much directly sunlight (in fact, whatever light it does get is diffused by a frosted window, and not too intense).

A few of my friends have tanks and I basically just can't resist for too much longer! I'm looking at what was the Aqua One Euro View 90 (90x50x48 cm). However now its called the Horizon with a rather ugly stand, as opposed to the attractive cupboard the Euro came with. I obviously want to keep tropical fish and have a nice planted tank without using CO2. I was planning on using external canister filter and UV filter.

As for the aquascape, I'm not exactly sure on what I want. Obviously I can't go too crazy without CO2 but my mate is using a carbon supplement called Flourish, by Seachem. His tank seems to grow well with Amazon Swords, lilly's, a small amount of moss (which isn't doing much), and a few other bits. I would love some moss but unsure if I could grow it yet. For features, I was thinking a large, interesting rock on one side with some driftwood on the other, and arranged plants to suit. In keeping with the 'deep at the back, shallow at the front' gravel rule, I was considering building a kind of retaining wall with small rocks to have a small front area which could possibly be carpeted with moss in the future. As for substrate, I was thinking some 3mm black/dark coloured gravel, I was also considering some fertilizer for the first layer but if I was to use a gravel syphon to clean up when doing a water change I don't want my tank turning brown and getting it everywhere! Hence the Flourish product.

As for fish, its not much of a priority at the moment, as I know how long it will take to do a fishless cycle, then adding plants and getting the tank settled how I like it. But I was originally wanting Angels (black or marble) as my 'main' or 'feature' fish, with Neon Tetra as my schooling fish and probably some Bronze catfish to clean up the bottom. That was until I found out that Angels eat Neons in the wild. I would still love to have both but I'm considering silvertip tetra or similar schooling fish in place of the Neons (which sucks, because I LOVE the vibrant colours of the cardinals and neons). I was also thinking cherry shrimp in there (how will these go with the catfish getting around the place?), and something that likes to sit at the top of the tank. I was some at my LFS today but forgot their names. I like a tank where someone looks at it and doesn't see everything in it within 10 seconds. One where you can sit and look at it for quite some time, observing the fish, and then after 10 minutes, see a fish you didn't know was in there, then another might show itself. Discus are the ultimate goal but I don't trust myself when starting out (even if my mates are keeping them successfully now). Could anyone give me any other advice on a 'feature' fish, or what will work well with Angels (do I keep odd or even numbers? Apparently best in groups of 6 or more?).

So thats basically it from me. Just an intro and a few questions.

Thanks for reading and answering if you do!

Tom.

PS I'll post a few photos of my two inspiration tanks that my mates own later.
 
First off :hi: to the forums. You're right, there are lots of friendly people here, and you seem genuinely caring about the well being of the fish - not just "Oooh I want AALLLLL the pretty fish, and I don't care that you say they eat each other or the tank isn't big enough or blah blah"... so you'll fit right in :D

a 1m x 1.8m space? :blink: I'm jealous! Wish I had the room. Also loving that you drift... nowhere around here to do that (I'm in the UK) unless I pay a fortune to go to a race track - I'd now rather spend money on fish haha.

I think fish are the way to go for many reasons (especially at uni) - unlike dogs, cats, hamster, and even lizards, they require no petting, no walking, etc. Sure, tank maintenance is a chore (but one we love if we admit it) but it's not as often as walking a dog x times a day or cleaning up their poop all the time. Regardless of what people think, they are clever, showing facial recognition (all fish, but you ask a gourami owner who will vouch ten fold for this). They're also mighty relaxing - I wish I had a tank when I was at uni. Instead I had 11 rats which all needed at least 2 hours out of cage me interaction per day - stressful when you need to get stuff done. So You can sit and relax and watch the fish whilst you're studying. I couldn't think of a more perfect environment.

As for aquascaping, I know a lot of people on here have clay based cat litter underneath their substrate. This provides a base for the plants to root into. I understand what you mean about not using CO2 and worryng about your plants growing, but I can definitely speak for moss when I say it is possible to grow in a none co2 infused tank (I have java moss, xmas moss and moss balls all in a 48litre tank with no co2 - 2 months in and they're thriving even without fertiliser or supplements).

On the stocking/fish side of things, I have no experience with angels, so I wouldn't know (I haven't even done any research into them as I don't have room for a tank as big as they need). What about gouramis as a feature fish? I don't know what the larger species are like with tetras, but I'm ssure someone would have the knowledge to say yay or nay.

Good luck with the tank :)

Willow
 
Hello and welcome to the forum.

Seems you've been reading quite a bit which is great. Many people just do not bother researching before they buy fish and then have problems.
Some people seem to keep neons and angels together, cardinals are supposed to be ok with angels too but I've never had much luck which an angel with neons/cardinals.
I cannot help with aquascaping, my idea of aquascaping is put a plant in and watch it grow or die. Some people in the planted section on this forum have amazing tanks, I just have plants here and there and maybe a few rocks with a bit of wood. Its nothing nice to look at.
 
Cheers for the replies guys. One message I got from doing any light reading on the topic was that research is important, and keeping an aquarium is no simple task, it has some theory behind it. I've read up on fishless cycling mainly and a few other bits and pieces like methods of water changes, planting and a bit about the fish themselves. I've made quite a few trips to the LFS's with my mates who know quite a bit and now I know pretty much what to buy when the time comes. Also, I hate it when people have problems and rely on someone answering their question rather then finding out for themselves. Discussion on the issue is good, but simply asking before searching is annoying. Plus, not earning much money means I can't afford to be killing any fish! Aside from the whole idea of your pet dying.

Here's some photos. Not the most recent though, and I apologise for the iPhone quality.
One of my mates tanks in its very early stages, the Euroview 90. This is almost identical to the tank I plan to get, just a tiny bit smaller (like, 3cm width smaller).
i-nFbpxjX-L.jpg


His new tank! Cade.
i-64LZ5QN-L.jpg


CO2 bubbles floating around. He never got his Java to attach to the wood. After I read up on moss, I found out that Java doesn't actually attach to anything, it just floats, so the hair net method would've worked to tie it down. Oh well.
i-zxs7Bm5-M.jpg


As for my planned location, here it is in the morning (around 8AM)
i-hG48S9f-M.jpg


And here in the afternoon (4pm ish)
i-Nk2v3vs-M.jpg


So the light doesn't really change too much. It gets a bit in the morning from a window behind where I was standing (its a very small, frosted window). The back wall is an outside wall however it faces South, so there's no direct sunlight on it in the morning or afternoon. I was thinking of getting the tank that is 93cm wide, but I could possibly afford the 122cm wide tank. But then again, I may not be able to afford to fill it! I plan to get this range of tank, but without the stand (I prefer the Euro View style stand, its basically a cupboard with doors to hide anything you store/your filter.

As for the Gourami, they might be best suited as a main fish. However aesthetically I'm not a huge fan. I like the Angels and Discus as their shape is just so unique to any other fish, whereas the Gourami still has the basic stereotypical shape of a fish (like all the other fish I plan to have, just bigger). I would have to see them in person to judge though.

Does anyone know what a surface dwelling fish may be? The ones I saw were white, and their 'nose' was kind of inline with their backbone, with a 'chin' kind of curving up to it. They were only about 6-7cm long, and may have had a touch of yellow on a fin. Or any other fish that occupy the top area of the tank that won't interfere with the school of tetra?
 
Good morning and welcome! :good: I can help on the angelfish front! I keep and breed angels. I also have neon tetras and cardinal tetras. If you get the angels when they are about dime size and the neons at about 1", you will be fine as far as the angels eating the neons. I have had alot of success keeping them together. My black angel is almost 5" in diameter now(the fish in my avatar) and he doesn't seem to know he should be able to eat the neons. I keep the angels fed well and don't have any issues. But keep in mind, what works for one person may not work for you. Discus are beautiful fish! I had a tank of them many, many years ago. When they all dies mysteriously, I didn't have the heart to try again. Good luck to you with what ever you decide to do!
 
Does anyone know what a surface dwelling fish may be? The ones I saw were white, and their 'nose' was kind of inline with their backbone, with a 'chin' kind of curving up to it. They were only about 6-7cm long, and may have had a touch of yellow on a fin. Or any other fish that occupy the top area of the tank that won't interfere with the school of tetra?

This sounds like golden wonder panchax to me. Sorry to say that if that's what you're thinking of your tetras may well disappear into their bellies. Marble hachetfish are another surface dweller that springs to mind.
 
Well, :hi: to the forums!

After having almost completely made up my mind about what tank I will be getting later this year, you seem to have changed my mind again!! I was going to get a Juwel Rio 180 but after a quick bit of research I have found that not only is this tank cheaper by £70, it is also marginally bigger (by 2l lol)!

Thanks for giving me something to think about and good luck :)
 
Good morning and welcome! :good: I can help on the angelfish front! I keep and breed angels. I also have neon tetras and cardinal tetras. If you get the angels when they are about dime size and the neons at about 1", you will be fine as far as the angels eating the neons. I have had alot of success keeping them together. My black angel is almost 5" in diameter now(the fish in my avatar) and he doesn't seem to know he should be able to eat the neons. I keep the angels fed well and don't have any issues. But keep in mind, what works for one person may not work for you. Discus are beautiful fish! I had a tank of them many, many years ago. When they all dies mysteriously, I didn't have the heart to try again. Good luck to you with what ever you decide to do!
Good to know! Hopefully my LFS's have some small Angels when the time comes to stock the tank. Thanks for the reply, also how many Angels should I buy? I read on an online store in Australia that they recommend groups of 6 or more, but should be kept in odd numbers to avoid bullying?

omg I love "his new tank. cade"... What make and model is it? I wonder if I can get one in england
Its actually made by Cade. Just doing a quick Google search reveals his is a Cade CB600, with the 'Luxury' lighting. The stand it comes with is classy too, its got black glass on the front with 'CADE' etched into both the tank and the stand. There is a bigger one, the CB900, and I believe they even go up from there.

Does anyone know what a surface dwelling fish may be? The ones I saw were white, and their 'nose' was kind of inline with their backbone, with a 'chin' kind of curving up to it. They were only about 6-7cm long, and may have had a touch of yellow on a fin. Or any other fish that occupy the top area of the tank that won't interfere with the school of tetra?

This sounds like golden wonder panchax to me. Sorry to say that if that's what you're thinking of your tetras may well disappear into their bellies. Marble hachetfish are another surface dweller that springs to mind.
Yeah I think that may have been it. I wasn't after that particular fish, it was jsut the only one the LFS had that sat right at the surface of the tank. Another fish that behaves similarly is the 'Butterfly Fish - Pantodon' (I just read they'll eat anything small enough to fit in their mouth, and are likely to jump out of the tank. Since I don't plan on having the lids on tightly all the time, in fact I'd rather no lids, Butterfly fish are probably not suited :( , just to add variety to the tank and make it more interesting. I'm sure there's plenty more species that behave like this. Basically my goal is to have a well planted tank (obviously as well as it can be without CO2), with a variety of fish in there, many who are 'invisible', the ones that you rarely see, or only see after a long time staring at the tank.

Well, :hi: to the forums!

After having almost completely made up my mind about what tank I will be getting later this year, you seem to have changed my mind again!! I was going to get a Juwel Rio 180 but after a quick bit of research I have found that not only is this tank cheaper by £70, it is also marginally bigger (by 2l lol)!

Thanks for giving me something to think about and good luck :)

Haha yeah I really do like the Juwel range, especially the Rio, but I like to be able to see the surface of the water, particularly if I have lilly's in the tank. I don't want to just look in and see a stem, you gotta see the pad! Also the Horizon tank is deeper, which I like. I was actually considering the Aqua One 620-T, ditching the hood setup for an external filter and a new light setup, but the narrow tank (although tall) wouldn't suit the area I want to place it in.
 
They say to get 6 angels when they are small. Let them grow together and see what ones pair off. That didn't work for me. Of course I got a bully. I removed the bully, but that only created another bully. I then started removing the fish that was getting bullied. Thanks to my angels, I now have 3 tanks set up with angels in them, two with breeding pairs and one with 3 male angels. The males didn't get along until I put in alot of active tetras. Now everything seems fine.
 
So the male Angels don't mind the tetra? Could I ask what type of tetra they are? I only plan on having the one main tank so I can't really remove fish, unless the LFS wants them. I also wanted some red cherry shrimp, but it seems the Angels would make a meal of them :lol: #41#### Angels, can't you just get along! Haha.

So currently thinking for stocklist:
At least two Angelfish, prefer black.
5 or so bottom feeding catfish. Thinking bristle nose, bronze, or even Otocinclus, as I've read these are pretty friendly community fish.
10 to start with neon or cardinal tetra. Eventually build a bigger school up.
I'd really like some Harlequin Rasbora, 5 or so to school up with the tetra, maybe more in the future.
1 or 2 Whiptail catfish down the track a bit. Very unique fish to look at, and apparently they like to hide and are nocturnal!
And I was considering a Glass Catfish, or three. My mate (with the above tank) had only one and all it did was hide behind a rock and sometimes nip his neons. I'm unsure how these will fit in with my tank though, maybe a school of three will keep together and not be so shy.

As for plan for introduction into the tank, obviously the Angelfish and Whiptail would be last, giving the smaller fish time to find any hiding spots, and even grow a little. Probably start with the bottom feeders and tetra, then introduce the Rasbora. Then maybe the whiptail and glass catfish at the time time so that the catfish don't think they're boss and eat everything.

Obviously the tank will be setup with substrate and rocks to begin with, let it clear up for a while, then begin a fishless cycle. After a week or two introduce the plants (hopefully some Nitrate will be present by then) and give those time to get their roots in. Then why my cycle is complete (roughly 2 months maybe?), then execute my stocking plan. That will still give me time to continue researching!
 
if you can get hold of some mature filter media (maybe one of your friends would donate?) then you can have your tank cycled WAY quicker. My 48litre was cycled in 12 days thanks to a huge chunk of donated media.
 
if you can get hold of some mature filter media (maybe one of your friends would donate?) then you can have your tank cycled WAY quicker. My 48litre was cycled in 12 days thanks to a huge chunk of donated media.

Whats the best way to do this? Trade his mature stuff for my brand new media? Wouldn't his tank then require more time to grow bacteria on my media, possibly upsetting his tank? Or should I only take a little?
 
you only need a little amount to seed... so a couple of ceramic rings (make sure they dont ever dry out) and literally a slither of his filter sponge (I took a 1cm strip from a large external filter, it didn't impact it at all). The little space you take from your friends filter can be filled in with a little piece of new sponge and that will fill up with good bacteria in no time.

because you're only taking a small amount, his tank will be fine :) but I'm sure someone here will tell you how much media you can take without impacting. And if you've got a couple of friends with tanks, you could get a little bit from each tank and making it even quicker :)

What I did with mine was wedge the piece of mature sponge in with my new sponge in the filter and let it run while I was dosing with ammonia. My filter didn't have a space for ceramic rings, so (after making the mistake of just dropping the first couple I took to the bottom of the tank), I netted them in some tights and attached it to the outside of the filter over the inlet. Worked a treat :good:

when you cycle from scratch, certain types of bacteria take longer to multiply (if I'm right, the ammonia processing ones grow quicker than nitrite processing ones and this is what takes the time when cycling from scratch), so if you already have some from a mature filter, then you have a head start.

I hope that made some sense :look:
 
Oh by the way, you won't be able to put plants into your tank when doing your fishless cycle as they require light. If you have the light on then you're bound to get heaps of algae #17##### you're adding pure ammonia to the water! Apart from that you seem to have a good solid plan which is great, just one more thing; if I were you I may get ever so slightly more rasbora's. Five is edging on not enough, I'd go for 6 or 7 at the least.
 

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