London water - stocking advice (pic attached for help)

[raphlovesfish]

@Byron thanks for the feedback re testing. I have made the API GH/KH order on amazon. Should receive it tomorrow. i have a couple of weeks before deciding on the next batch of fish to add.

@essjay I have the 5-1 test kit so i presume its not the most accurate. I took a measurement 24 hours after afding the endlers is and it reads:

-PH 7.6
-GH between 200 - 250 the shade of brown is difficult to determine exacyl
-KH 180-270
-nitrate between 10-25
-nitrite 0
-ammonia 0

these readings are before i fed my fish a tiny amount. their appetite is seems to be great.

ill take another read tomorrow afternoon and if the Ns have increased i will do a 25% water change.
my wife has noticed that all six endler's colours stand out much more. for example the yellow is a lot more vibrant amd the blue & black a lot deeper. Is that ok?

@NewFishPerson i agree they are fun to watch. the displaying can be quite mesmerising with all the colours on display. also they seem to be comfortable moving about the tank and at night i saw a couple were next to each other 'sleeping'.

thanks all for the feedback/advice so far.

 

[Byron]

my wife has noticed that all six endler's colours stand out much more. for example the yellow is a lot more vibrant amd the blue & black a lot deeper. Is that ok?

Yes, this is what you/we should see. Fish in store tanks are under immense stress, more than you might realize. Once they are placed in a suitable environment for the species, they settle down. When fish do that, their colours and patterning will become more vibrant. There is a complex biological reason internally for this that I won't bore you with, but it is significant.

 

[hobby5]

Yes, this is possible from the water parameter perspective because this species (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi) does best in water with similar parameters to that in which it was hatched and raised. However, it does need warmth, 26-7C/80F absolute minimum, but this will not bother your Endlers [Poecilia (Acanthophacelus) wingei] so that is OK, but I mention it as some do not understand the need for warmth and the rams do not live as long as they could normally. Tank size may be an issue, from the info that essjay posted earlier. If a larger tank is possible as you mentioned in this thread, that would be better.
nment.

I just want to mention, that M. ramirezi eggs only hatch in soft water. You cannot breed them in hard water. Thus, you are correct, it does best in water it hatched in, which is soft.

 

[raphlovesfish]

@Byron whatever the reason it's markedly made the fish stand out more even though they are small.

All fish seem to be fine so far. I will do the checks tonight and if needed will do a water change.

 

[aussieant32]

sorry for the delayed response.

Yes essentially need your water, I used to breed them when I lived in London. The water is perfect.

Unfortunately they are not community fish

 

[raphlovesfish]

thanks @aussieant32

@Byron mentioned that Tanganyikan shell would work but only on their own as a group so i wont be getting them for this tank.

so far the endlers seem happy. all accounted for and colours are great. the NO2 did go up to between 25-50 and have done a 25% water change which brought it down to about 10. NO3 was 0.

doss this mean my tank is cycled?

should the Ns stay near zero by the weekend can i get another batch of fish in? maybe a shool of pygmy cory? or more endlers?

 

[Essjay]

the NO2 did go up to between 25-50 and have done a 25% water change which brought it down to about 10. NO3 was 0.

I hope you have those the wrong way round. The nitrite tester only goes up to 8.

The tank will be cycled for the fish you have now when both ammonia and nitrite have been zero for a week.
Do you have an ammonia test? You didn't mention the ammonia reading. If the tank isn't cycled, that will be the first thing to go up as the fish have been excreting it since the moment they went into the tank. Nitrite won't appear until there enough ammonia eaters to make some. If you have enough plants, they should use all the ammonia but you won't know until you measure it.

I would wait a bit longer before getting more fish - and until you know the ammonia is also staying at zero. I am not sure about pygmy cories. I would prefer to see them in softer water, and they can be delicate so it is risky putting them in a new tank. A mature tank is different from a cycled tank. A mature tank has grown a lot of micro-organisms, not just the bacteria that 'eat' ammonia and nitrite. There are delicate species that do better once these micro-organisms are established, and dwarf cories are among them.

 

[raphlovesfish]

@essjay thanks. Yes, I got the nitrate/nitrite the other way around. Nitrite is on zero. I have tested for ammonia every day twice and so far it has stayed stable at zero (bright yellow)

So if it has stayed at zero by Saturday/Sunday should I add more? The water also hasn't change - very clear thankfully. If I do decide to add, I will either go for the galaxies (if they have it in store) or more endlers.

 

[Essjay]

I wasn't sure about ammonia as you didn't mention it, but that good it is also staying at zero.

It is always safer to make absolutely sure before getting more fish

 

[raphlovesfish]

Hello All - hope everyone is well.

Just a quick update and a follow-on question please.

I have been testing my water every morning and early evening with following average results:

-Nitrite 0
-Nitrate fluctuates between 25-50
-Ammonia 0 (as bright yellow as the indicator can be)

-GH approximately 220-250 (typical London water parameter)
-KH have increased markedly to the highest colour (Dark blue nearly black)
-PH have increased from 7.6 to approximately 8

Should I do a water change? If yes, how much?

Thanks

 

[NewFishPerson]

Ideally you should do weekly water changes. I've personally been doing 40% each week, the reason for wanting to do so is to dilute any Nitrate buildup, and to aid removal of the things we cannot easily test for like dissolved organics and hormones in the water. Your water sounds very similar to my own in that the pH is lower out of the tap than when it has been sat in the tank, because of this I've split my water changes into 2x 20% changes a week in an attempt to avoid large swings in tank pH. There are calculators available online that can tell you how much of a water change to do, however I've just stuck with the 2x 40% as that is above what the calculators list and it's an easy amount for me to change.

The calculator I used for water changes is http://aqadvisor.com/ you can input your tank dimensions, filter and livestock in. It should give you a rough idea of how much water to change.

 

[raphlovesfish]

thanks @NewFishPerson

Calculator indicates I should do 2 x 10%. I want to avoid disturbing the fish as much as possible as its a newly set up tank.

I think I will do the same and overcompensate with 2 x 20% for now to manage the KH and PH levels because from posts I have read on here they are linked.

 

[Byron]

thanks @NewFishPerson

Calculator indicates I should do 2 x 10%. I want to avoid disturbing the fish as much as possible as its a newly set up tank.

I think I will do the same and overcompensate with 2 x 20% for now to manage the KH and PH levels because from posts I have read on here they are linked.

Water changes are another thing not always understood correctly. The more water you change, the healthier will be the fish. Provided the parameters (GH, KH, pH and temperature) are basically the same between source water and tank water. You really cannot change too much water.

I have tap water that is basically zero GH/KH, and I keep very soft water fish (most are wild caught) so I am able to change 50-65% once a week. One larger change is more effective than multiple smaller changes. You should be able to do similar, if you stay with your tap water parameters in the tank.

On the pH, that is not much of an increase, and possibly due to the outgas of CO2 from the tap water. Tap water can contain a lot of dissolved CO2, and should be allowed to sit for 24 hours before testing pH (not necessary for other tests, and not necessary for tank water). If you have calcareous substances in the tank, these could increase GH/KH/pH depending, but I suspect the CO2 is the thing here.

Byron.

 

[raphlovesfish]

thanks @Byron.

I am certain the PH has increased due to the KH going up. I presume its from the natural condensation process which deacreases water levels therefore the water becomes more concentrated with monerals. Every other reading is stable. I have done a water change of 50% and readings are fine for now.

Quick update on the fish. Yesterday evening I visited my LFS and they had a delivery come in 24hrs ago. I bought four male guppies with different assortment of colours. Beautiful and playful fish to build the community around I think. All getting on very well with the endlers so happy days for now.

Interestingly, i was observing the electric blue rams i talked about previously and yes I noticed they were in pairs. Also they looked quite content after watching them for about 15 mins even in London waters. Another thing I noted was their size. They were about 2.5cm - 3cm. LFS contact said they only grow to 5cm but their bodies widen out so they look chunkier. I thought they would grow larger. Just a note to myself whenever i upgrade in the future I guess.

 

[Byron]

I am certain the PH has increased due to the KH going up. I presume its from the natural condensation process which deacreases water levels therefore the water becomes more concentrated with monerals. Every other reading is stable. I have done a water change of 50% and readings are fine for now.

It would require a massive evaporation before the minerals left behind would raise KH, GH and/or pH to such a degree. I cannot explain the KH at the moment, but the pH is easily confirmed...test a glass of tap water this sits out 24 hours. I am fairly certain you will find it higher, and probably close if not the same as the tank. Unless, again, there are calcareous substances in the tank. But test the tap, it is easy to do.