Local Pet Store.

[The Taffy Apple]

Good day to you all, Terry here from sunny South Wales. Complete 'newby' to the hobby but owner of a cycled tank (fishless, plantless 30L). Cycle took 5/6 weeks using ammonia, struggled at times (PH crashing issues) but finally got there.

Made the big step today. After eventually completing my 'Qualifying week' (i took another 3 days, just to be OCD!) of '0' NitrIte and '0' Ammonia within 12 hrs, i presumed i was ready. Wrong.

This story could go on for pages, but the short and long of it is this..;

1/. I was refused the sale of ANY fish due to me having "trace of NitrAte" in my readings. (i done a complete clean today AM prior to going, gravel clean included).

2/. I was informed by the salesperson that "ANY trace of NitrAte" is very harmful and not allowed.

3/ She remarked on the process in which i cycled my tank as, and i will quote here again -"old fashioned" , "old school" and at one point "not how it's done these days" (i took along and showed her my past 6 week thorough cycle diary).


Now, please... i have spent many hours on this internet site (along with others) posting, reading, learning and Pm'ing very knowledgable enthusiasts. I understand the process of cycling my tank with ammonia. In fact, when i told her how much ammonia and nitrIte my tank was processing, she replied "you're putting WHAT into the tank?".

Have i got this completey wrong here? Or does this woman not know what she is saying?

It really has thrown me a litte of course.

Any replies highly appreciated,
Terry.

 

[Skins]

You should have asked her to test one of the shops tanks for nitrate.
Sounds likes she is getting her nitrIte and nitrAtes mixed up.

 

[electropunk06]

Lots of LFS workers dont have a clue what they are doing. they usualy just want to sell stuff.
the way you cycled your tank is perfectly correct. some fish can live in huge nitrate levels 2000+ i have seen for one species but cant remember which .
i think 20-40ppm is fine in most set ups.
Lloyd

 

[Tropicoll]

Hi Terry

I've been sat here for the last few minutes reading and re-reading your post. Firstly, congrats on completing the quali week (+3!)

Your LFS lady needs some education. She is wrong, you are right.

1. TAP WATER generally has 20 - 40 ppm NitrAte so completely getting rid of it is impossible.
2. You're putting WHAT in the water??? That made me laugh.
3. The tank cycling method has only been around for about 11 years so calling it old-fashioned is utterly wrong.

I can only assume that she is completely reliant upon the likes of SafeStart and other biological additives. The only thing I can commend her for is actually refusing to sell you fish, even if it is for the wrong reason. Most would just make the sale for the profit.

A question though - how did she know your nitrAte reading? I am assuming that as you have successfully cycled the tank you have an API test kit or similar?

Probably the best thing you could do is to find a PDF or similar quoting the benefits of fishless cycling, give it to her and then get your fish somewhere else, assuming that there's another FS somewhere nearby.

Good luck!

Collin

 

[doresy]

As suggested it sounds as though she is mixing her nitrite and nitrate up. Easily done.

Of course any trace of nitrite is detrimental to keeping fish but nitrate can be tolerated in fairly high doses. However 40ppm or lower is best.

My water straight from the tap contains 40ppm

Going by what you have stated you are ready for fish immediately or must continue to add ammonia to feed your hard earned bacteria.

Oh, and change your store

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Great reples, i'm highly relieved you agree with me on this.

Thank you Tropicoll... i informed her of my NitrAte readings last night (40ppm) and what they were now after a complete gravel and clean this morning.





I have added 2 male Guppys and a pretty 'universal' looking 2cm grey shrimp from a store just down the road.

I'm major rooting for these 3 guys. I would happily send her a picture of them and a leaflet on ' Starting out? here's what you need to know about Tropical Fish' in 2/3 weeks time!

Again, thank you for the replies...i now know what to do.

Terry.

 

[pinkspider]

Ah, now this sounds very similar to an experience my Husband's Auntie has recently had:

She wanted to start keeping fish, so myself and my Husband said we'd help guide her and assist with the setup of the tank (80l w/internal filteration, heater and Glo light unit). We made sure she learnt about what substances and levels she should be testing for and aiming to achieve and kept track of the process.

Once the tank had sufficiently cycled (4.5 weeks in this case) we took her to a LFS, armed with a water sample and breakdown of the levels across the cycling process. We pointed her in the direction of suitable fish and then encouraged her to speak to one of the employees of the shop to make sure that everything was as it should be and also to give her a chance to ask any questions.

Well, that didn't get very far...she started to mention how the tank had been cycled (including Ammonia and plants) and got told that was an incredibly dangerous thing to do and that putting any fish in the tank would kill them within hours. They even refused to do a water test saying there was no point.

Needless to say, we left and went to another LFS where the chap who helped her was more than knowledgeable and praised the quality of the water and the method of cycling. He also helped her draw up a timetable/schedule for adding fish, which included 5 Zebra Danios as the first fish to populate the tank, down to 6 months into the tanks life where she will add 3 Clown Loach. Impressed.

As Skins has said, it sounds like the lass you spoke to must have had her NitrITES and NitrATES mixed up

Hope you sort it all, as it sounds like you've gone about everything in the correct manner.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Phew...good to know it isn't just a silly newby making glaring mistake... thank you pinkspider, great reply


I was fully under the impression that this place had girls/lads behind the counter that knew what they were talking about... terrible judge of character from me.

PS- Both Guppys seem very happy in the tank downstairs.

 

[walkers101]

Ah, now this sounds very similar to an experience my Husband's Auntie has recently had:

She wanted to start keeping fish, so myself and my Husband said we'd help guide her and assist with the setup of the tank (80l w/internal filteration, heater and Glo light unit). We made sure she learnt about what substances and levels she should be testing for and aiming to achieve and kept track of the process.

Once the tank had sufficiently cycled (4.5 weeks in this case) we took her to a LFS, armed with a water sample and breakdown of the levels across the cycling process. We pointed her in the direction of suitable fish and then encouraged her to speak to one of the employees of the shop to make sure that everything was as it should be and also to give her a chance to ask any questions.

Well, that didn't get very far...she started to mention how the tank had been cycled (including Ammonia and plants) and got told that was an incredibly dangerous thing to do and that putting any fish in the tank would kill them within hours. They even refused to do a water test saying there was no point.

Needless to say, we left and went to another LFS where the chap who helped her was more than knowledgeable and praised the quality of the water and the method of cycling. He also helped her draw up a timetable/schedule for adding fish, which included 5 Zebra Danios as the first fish to populate the tank, down to 6 months into the tanks life where she will add 3 Clown Loach. Impressed.

As Skins has said, it sounds like the lass you spoke to must have had her NitrITES and NitrATES mixed up

Hope you sort it all, as it sounds like you've gone about everything in the correct manner.

He wasn't that knowledgeable 3 clown loach in a 80 litre oh dear

 

[Curiosity101]

Needless to say, we left and went to another LFS where the chap who helped her was more than knowledgeable and praised the quality of the water and the method of cycling. He also helped her draw up a timetable/schedule for adding fish, which included 5 Zebra Danios as the first fish to populate the tank, down to 6 months into the tanks life where she will add 3 Clown Loach. Impressed.

Actually this sounds like the guy DOESN'T know what a fishless cycle is.

Zebra danios are the fish of choice in a fish in cycling situation. They've been abused for many years due to their 'hardy' nature.

Secondly, a fishlessly cycled tank doesn't need to be stocked over a 6month period. All but the most sensitive fish can be added to a fishlessly cycled tank STRAIGHT AWAY. And the point is that you're meant to cycle it to the point that you can fully stock the tank in one fish shop trip... or at the very least stock it quite a bit.

Also... clown loaches in an 80l what on earth!

 

[pinkspider]

Needless to say, we left and went to another LFS where the chap who helped her was more than knowledgeable and praised the quality of the water and the method of cycling. He also helped her draw up a timetable/schedule for adding fish, which included 5 Zebra Danios as the first fish to populate the tank, down to 6 months into the tanks life where she will add 3 Clown Loach. Impressed.

Actually this sounds like the guy DOESN'T know what a fishless cycle is.

Zebra danios are the fish of choice in a fish in cycling situation. They've been abused for many years due to their 'hardy' nature.

Secondly, a fishlessly cycled tank doesn't need to be stocked over a 6month period. All but the most sensitive fish can be added to a fishlessly cycled tank STRAIGHT AWAY. And the point is that you're meant to cycle it to the point that you can fully stock the tank in one fish shop trip... or at the very least stock it quite a bit.

Also... clown loaches in an 80l what on earth!

Right, time to clarify a few things:
The Zebra Danios were chosen as the first fish for the tank, purely because they are rather indestructable and my Husband's Auntie liked the look of them.

The reason he drew up a timetable for her is to enable her to learn and appreciate the progression of a tank..she doesn't see any fun in adding all the fish all at once.

As for the Clown Loach, I have kept them for many years and I always have them in groups of 3 in any small tank I have. This is not to say they stay in that tank forever..and that is also the case with the situation I outlined in my original post.

Husband's Auntie will be getting a new tank for her birthday in February and so far the plan is for it to be a 6x3x2, as she's caught the fish keeping bug quickly.

I was only outlining one experience, and everyone has different views - but as a fishkeeper of 15 years I was happy to hear the advice given by the second LFS and I feel happy with what the tank is doing and how the fish are being kept.

 

[electropunk06]

Needless to say, we left and went to another LFS where the chap who helped her was more than knowledgeable and praised the quality of the water and the method of cycling. He also helped her draw up a timetable/schedule for adding fish, which included 5 Zebra Danios as the first fish to populate the tank, down to 6 months into the tanks life where she will add 3 Clown Loach. Impressed.

Actually this sounds like the guy DOESN'T know what a fishless cycle is.

Zebra danios are the fish of choice in a fish in cycling situation. They've been abused for many years due to their 'hardy' nature.

Secondly, a fishlessly cycled tank doesn't need to be stocked over a 6month period. All but the most sensitive fish can be added to a fishlessly cycled tank STRAIGHT AWAY. And the point is that you're meant to cycle it to the point that you can fully stock the tank in one fish shop trip... or at the very least stock it quite a bit.

Also... clown loaches in an 80l what on earth!

Right, time to clarify a few things:
The Zebra Danios were chosen as the first fish for the tank, purely because they are rather indestructable and my Husband's Auntie liked the look of them.

The reason he drew up a timetable for her is to enable her to learn and appreciate the progression of a tank..she doesn't see any fun in adding all the fish all at once.

As for the Clown Loach, I have kept them for many years and I always have them in groups of 3 in any small tank I have. This is not to say they stay in that tank forever..and that is also the case with the situation I outlined in my original post.

Husband's Auntie will be getting a new tank for her birthday in February and so far the plan is for it to be a 6x3x2, as she's caught the fish keeping bug quickly.

I was only outlining one experience, and everyone has different views - but as a fishkeeper of 15 years I was happy to hear the advice given by the second LFS and I feel happy with what the tank is doing and how the fish are being kept.

i wouldn't take the criticism personally, they are just concerned about fishes health and well being.

 

[pinkspider]

Needless to say, we left and went to another LFS where the chap who helped her was more than knowledgeable and praised the quality of the water and the method of cycling. He also helped her draw up a timetable/schedule for adding fish, which included 5 Zebra Danios as the first fish to populate the tank, down to 6 months into the tanks life where she will add 3 Clown Loach. Impressed.

Actually this sounds like the guy DOESN'T know what a fishless cycle is.

Zebra danios are the fish of choice in a fish in cycling situation. They've been abused for many years due to their 'hardy' nature.

Secondly, a fishlessly cycled tank doesn't need to be stocked over a 6month period. All but the most sensitive fish can be added to a fishlessly cycled tank STRAIGHT AWAY. And the point is that you're meant to cycle it to the point that you can fully stock the tank in one fish shop trip... or at the very least stock it quite a bit.

Also... clown loaches in an 80l what on earth!

Right, time to clarify a few things:
The Zebra Danios were chosen as the first fish for the tank, purely because they are rather indestructable and my Husband's Auntie liked the look of them.

The reason he drew up a timetable for her is to enable her to learn and appreciate the progression of a tank..she doesn't see any fun in adding all the fish all at once.

As for the Clown Loach, I have kept them for many years and I always have them in groups of 3 in any small tank I have. This is not to say they stay in that tank forever..and that is also the case with the situation I outlined in my original post.

Husband's Auntie will be getting a new tank for her birthday in February and so far the plan is for it to be a 6x3x2, as she's caught the fish keeping bug quickly.

I was only outlining one experience, and everyone has different views - but as a fishkeeper of 15 years I was happy to hear the advice given by the second LFS and I feel happy with what the tank is doing and how the fish are being kept.

i wouldn't take the criticism personally, they are just concerned about fishes health and well being.

I'm not and it's totally understandable that people are going to respond to what they see written. I have a terrible habit of writing an awful lot, but never giving a clear picture!