Live Foods.

[LisaLQ]

Maybe it's the ginseng and viagra hubby keeps giving them...he says it's to increase blood flow...to the brain....(ahem poor tasteless joke there). Would only work in men of course....with their brain being...erm...in their....erm...night night folks...

*Caution* - I am in no way recommending the use of ginseng or viagra, in any shape or form, for fish. Chastity belts, and the morning after pill, should be used only in extreme cases with medical guidance. If at all possible, pass out pamphlets on the dangers of promiscuity - or sit down with your platies for a chat about the risks of pregnancy and picking up a nasty dose of fungus in the foo-foo.

 

[stang1]

I really don't understand why you won't buy a filter and test kit for your tank. What happens if something does go wrong?

Can't set up a filter without a spare tank, as I've been told I cant start a cycle in a tank with fish in it, so I have to come up with a tank and a place for it, its out of the question. Now if I had read you can put a filter on and keep up your water changes and it will be fine I'd have no problems.
Why not buy a test kit? I change my water often enough that it doesn't really matter. a 40$ test kit seems more like a waste of money than anything. If something goes wrong such as? I have medications, and whenever something does go wrong I immediatly clean the tank out completely..

There's plenty can go wrong and you wouldn't necessarily notice it straight away.
We had a problem with our tank which meant the fish were getting little oxygen. Sorted the tank out only to notice a nitrite spike a few days later. Our Magnum Pleco had gone missing, not too unusual as he was tiny and kept hidden. Turned out he had actually died and that was what caused the nitrite spike.
Had exactly the same problem with an otto dying in one of my fighter tanks.
Surely it's best to have a test kit on hand just to check everything is ok, rather than taking a chance.

 

[t1tanrush]

I really don't understand why you won't buy a filter and test kit for your tank. What happens if something does go wrong?

Can't set up a filter without a spare tank, as I've been told I cant start a cycle in a tank with fish in it, so I have to come up with a tank and a place for it, its out of the question. Now if I had read you can put a filter on and keep up your water changes and it will be fine I'd have no problems.
Why not buy a test kit? I change my water often enough that it doesn't really matter. a 40$ test kit seems more like a waste of money than anything. If something goes wrong such as? I have medications, and whenever something does go wrong I immediatly clean the tank out completely..

There's plenty can go wrong and you wouldn't necessarily notice it straight away.
We had a problem with our tank which meant the fish were getting little oxygen. Sorted the tank out only to notice a nitrite spike a few days later. Our Magnum Pleco had gone missing, not too unusual as he was tiny and kept hidden. Turned out he had actually died and that was what caused the nitrite spike.
Had exactly the same problem with an otto dying in one of my fighter tanks.
Surely it's best to have a test kit on hand just to check everything is ok, rather than taking a chance.

I don't have small fish that are easily lost, if there is a fish I find dead, I conduct a larger water change than normal, unless its extremely recent. I know my fish get enough oxygen to, I have airstones in the tank.

 

[Gatorbait]

I don't use test kits either. I haven't for probably 15 years or so, can't really remember offhand.

I'm not about to say or think it's the right way to go and by using one you can be a couple days ahead of the game if something does go wrong.

If you've been in the hobby long enough you can tell if/what's wrong just by looking at your fish but like I mentioned, it's still not as good as having a test kit and you can't tell as soon. Saying you don't use one is fine but you shouldn't assume it's just as goodor a waste of money.

 

[stang1]

I don't use test kits either. I haven't for probably 15 years or so, can't really remember offhand.

I'm not about to say or think it's the right way to go and by using one you can be a couple days ahead of the game if something does go wrong.

If you've been in the hobby long enough you can tell if/what's wrong just by looking at your fish but like I mentioned, it's still not as good as having a test kit and you can't tell as soon. Saying you don't use one is fine but you shouldn't assume it's just as goodor a waste of money.

Sorry Gatorbait, I wasn't having a dig.
I appreciate you've been in the hobby a long time and I should imagine you do know what's what with 15 years behind you!
I've been into the hobby for less than a year so I tend to rely on the test kits a fair bit.

 

[Gatorbait]

I don't use test kits either. I haven't for probably 15 years or so, can't really remember offhand.

I'm not about to say or think it's the right way to go and by using one you can be a couple days ahead of the game if something does go wrong.

If you've been in the hobby long enough you can tell if/what's wrong just by looking at your fish but like I mentioned, it's still not as good as having a test kit and you can't tell as soon. Saying you don't use one is fine but you shouldn't assume it's just as goodor a waste of money.

Sorry Gatorbait, I wasn't having a dig.
I appreciate you've been in the hobby a long time and I should imagine you do know what's what with 15 years behind you!
I've been into the hobby for less than a year so I tend to rely on the test kits a fair bit.

Oh no, not at all. I'm agreeing with you 100%.

The point of my post was that he didn't use a test kit and felt safe. I only meant I don't either but I don't always feel safe and noone should have that false sense of security and a testkit will catch things faster than him or I will by watching our fish for signs of problems.

Not having a test kit is not good practice, no matter how long you've been in the hobby.

 

[stang1]

Sorry again Gatorbait, got the wrong end of the stick

 

[andywg]

actually, no. there are some species of fish which are usually stocked amoung some fish shops for the sole purpose of them being sold as "feeder fish"

LOL

illegal, give us the details of any shop that does that Dany LOL

not being silly Dany, honestly, its illegal mate, bit late in the day to prove it mate, but rest assured its illegal, read a billion threads on this!

actually, no. there are some species of fish which are usually stocked amoung some fish shops for the sole purpose of them being sold as "feeder fish"

Not in the UK....if you know a shop that does, then it's breaking the law .
Though It is not illegal to keep fish that will only eat other live fish, it is technically illegal to actually feed them live fish.
If the fish NEEDS live food, then they wouldn't prosecute, but if the fish would eat anything else they would.

Actually this is just plain wrong. There is no statute preventing the feeding of fish to other fish. The relevant statute is the Animal Welfare Act 2006. I read the statute presented a breakdown on this thread. For clarity I have reproduced my post below:

-------------------------------------

There is a statutory defence to anyone feeding a predator feeder fish, especially if the predator is not eating frozen yet, by using s. 4(3) of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (in particular note my bold):

4(3) The considerations to which it is relevant to have regard when determining for
the purposes of this section whether suffering is unnecessary include:

(a) whether the suffering could reasonably have been avoided or reduced;
​

(B) whether the conduct which caused the suffering was in compliance with any relevant enactment or any relevant provisions of a licence or code of practice issued under an enactment;
​

(c ) whether the conduct which caused the suffering was for a legitimate purpose, such as -
​

(i) the purpose of benefiting the animal, or
​

(ii) the purpose of protecting a person, property or another animal;
​

(d) whether the suffering was proportionate to the purpose of the conduct concerned;
​

(e) whether the conduct concerned was in all the circumstances that of a reasonably competent and humane person.​

​

You are preventing a predator from having a long, drawn out death from starvation by giving it a meal. The death of the prey is swift and there is no unnecessary suffering so long as you have some basic ethics about using feeder fish.


It is interesting to note that there is nothing that I can see in the entire act and appended schedules that even mentions the term "feeding". There are no provisions made for the inclusion or exclusion of it in the actions made illegal by the act. Suffering is described as:

"suffering" means physical or mental suffering and related expressions
shall be construed accordingly;

s. 62(1) Animal Welfare Act 2006

--------------------------


If you note, the whole of the above statute deals with nunnecessary suffering. There is no case law I am aware of at the moment that has clarified exactly what is necessary, and I doubt that the Crown Prosecution Service is going to waste time on fish keepers when they will be having to make case law and pay some pretty hefty prices for barristers.

I would suggest that by feeding any animal a live food that can be swallowed in one go you will not fall foul of the law. Though one could look at the swiftness of death between being asphyxiated in a stomach or having one clean bite take your head off...

 

[ant0]

my own opinion is that it happens in the wild so i've got no issues with it unless the owner is deliberatly being cruel. I feed live brine shrimp and bloodworms fairly regularly for a balanced diet along with flakes and veg. I've seen arowanas eat live goldfish and guppys and its quite a sight and although a painful death its much shorter and painless death than dying of a disease or most of the ways a fish could die, plus its natural so cant really argue against what happens in nature, imo.

 

[three-fingers]

Actually this is just plain wrong. There is no statute preventing the feeding of fish to other fish. The relevant statute is the Animal Welfare Act 2006. I read the statute presented a breakdown on this thread. For clarity I have reproduced my post below:

Ah right thanks , I cant even remember where I got the idea it was illegal from..I think it was another thread...or even forum .
So It's illegal to feed big live goldfish to piranhas and the like.
And it's also illegal to feed live rats and other sizeable vertebrates, but fish like neons are OK to feed because they are eaten in one go.
But then it's only OK to feed them if the animal you are going to feed would starve otherwise, so if you have piranhas that will eat frozen fish, you cant legally feed them live vertebrates.
Seems like a fair law .

 

[puddle_inc]

i don't like people killing fish. there are alternative foods, so they don't need to buy and kill a big goldfish, or a bunch of small ones. i've seen people take big fantail goldfish and put it in for piranahs. it's just not right. there are alternatives, so they should take them!

also, live foods like brine shrimp and microworms, doesn't bother me really.

 

[Gatorbait]

i don't like people killing fish. there are alternative foods, so they don't need to buy and kill a big goldfish, or a bunch of small ones. i've seen people take big fantail goldfish and put it in for piranahs. it's just not right. there are alternatives, so they should take them!

also, live foods like brine shrimp and microworms, doesn't bother me really.

To play devils advocate...

You can't pick and choose which live foods are ok to use as feeders based upon your personal beliefs and expect everyone else to be ok with it.

If you say you don't agree with large fish because they suffer but small fish are ok, that's different but you said all fish are not ok but other live foods are. There are other alternatives to live brine shrimp and microworms also so they shouldn't be used.

 

[puddle_inc]

omg, everyone just loves to attack me don't they? just like to find my posts and say something don't you? god, stop being immature about thigns i say ok? i don't think any FISH should be used. but brine shrimp and things are different. i'm not saying everyone has to do alternatives am i? i'm freaking sick of you guys thinking everything i say should be right, omfg, get over it!!!!

 

[Gatorbait]

omg, everyone just loves to attack me don't they? just like to find my posts and say something don't you? god, stop being immature about thigns i say ok? i don't think any FISH should be used. but brine shrimp and things are different. i'm not saying everyone has to do alternatives am i? i'm freaking sick of you guys thinking everything i say should be right, omfg, get over it!!!!

Why don't you chill out?

You're the one being immature. I actually agree with everything you say and wanted to hear more about it. I find this thread fascinating and am learning a lot from others as I figured others might also.

I won't bother ever responding to you ever again since you're such a jerk, so don't worry.

 

[puddle_inc]

you were acting like you thought i had to be right and stuff. it sounded like you were being rude. sorry for the misunderstanding, but everyone has been misundertsanding me on here. and i'm not a jerk, but it just lookedlike you were.