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Live brineshrimp safety
- Thread starter mark4785
- Start date
Have you ever watched any youtube videos on how to hatch and grow your own brine shrimp? I never have done this but it looks pretty easy to do. I think this way you want have to worry about getting live ones with diseases, which of, I have no idea.
AbbeysDad
Fish Gatherer
Brine shrimp are hatched and live in salt water - there are no salt water pathogens that can survive in fresh water. So brine shrimp are completely safe. ... and having 'said' the above, I'm not aware of brine shrimp causing any issues in SW tanks either.
I run a brine shrimp hatchery constantly. It’s a DIY using water bottle, desk lamp, and air tubing. Very easy off of YouTube. I feed my fish it in the evening and then fill it back up and start it for next evening. Shrimp ready in 24 hours. I keep my shrimp eggs in fridge until ready to use. Favorite brand is San Francisco Bay. You can occasionally get diseases from frozen shrimp and blood worms, according to Colin_T.
At the moment I feed frozen bloodworm and I have noticed that fish health can sometimes go down hill after feeding them to small fish like German blue rams and Black neon tetras. It seems to get stuck in their intestines. It's nice to see that someone else has made a link between them and disease. Also I have the constant headache of buying what should be fresh frozen bloodworms only to find that they are partially white; presumably this means they are rotten.
I'll see how to go about hatching them. Presumably the eggs, once refrigerated, are pathogen free or can be made pathogen free?
BRINESHRIMP
As mentioned by AbbeysDad and others, Brineshrimp (Artemia species) are perfectly safe for fish. They are grown in salt water ponds that do not contain fish. These ponds usually have a much higher level of salt than sea water and very little survives in them. Subsequently they do not have any diseases and your fish will not get sick from eating them or being exposed to the small amount of salt water they are sold in.
If the live brineshrimp have died in the bag at the shop and have been dead for a while, that can make your fish sick. If you see lots of dead brineshrimp in the bag, don't buy them. Dead brineshrimp are usually white or pale in colour and sit on the bottom of the bag/ tank and don't move.
-------------------
FROZEN SHRIMP
Deanasue mentioned frozen shrimp. These are prawns/ shrimp and not brineshrimp. Raw prawns and fish can carry diseases like microsporidia, which can affect fish and other crustaceans if they eat the contaminated flesh.
Shrimp and fish with a microsporidian infection will have a white appearance in the muscle tissue. This should not be confused with cooked prawns where the muscle tissue in the prawn tail turns white because of the cooking. If you buy a packet or raw frozen prawns, they should have a semi transparent appearance to their tail. If you see one that is white or cream, that one has a microsporidian infection and should be cooked or thrown out.
-------------------
BLOODWORMS
Bloodworms (Chironomid midge larvae) are normally sold frozen. Some brands are collected in sewer ponds and contain bad bacteria, which can cause fish to get sick. Freezing does not kill most bacteria and they simply go dormant, and re-awaken when they warm up. To overcome this problem, a number of companies that sell frozen bloodworms irradiate them to kill any disease organisms on the bloodworms and make them safe for the fish. Other companies don't irradiate the bloodworms and these untreated bloodworms can make some fish sick if they have bad bacteria on them.
Bloodworms also have a very hard head that cannot be digested by fish. The head can sometimes get lodged in the fish's intestine and cause a blockage, and this causes the fish to bloat up and die. You can prevent this buy using a pair of scissors to cut the head off the bloodworm and throw it away. You can also just cut the bloodworms into small pieces with a pr of scissors and that usually stops the problem.
Draining frozen bloodworms can help remove a lot of the red liquid from them and this can reduce problems with fish eating them and keep the tank cleaner. You put some frozen bloodworms into a fine mesh fish net and hang the net over a plastic bowl/ container. Leave it to defrost for a few minutes and a lot of the red liquid will drain out of the bloodworms and collect in the bowl. The bloodworms can be fed to the fish and the red liquid can be poured on the garden.
*NB* Don't let your pets eat or drink this red liquid.
*NB* If the frozen bloodworms are white or grey, do not use them. These have been dead for sometime before they were packaged and have no value and could cause the fish to get sick.
Bloodworms are also sold as live food in some places (mostly Asia) and these should be avoided. The bloodworm has a hard head and sharp set of jaws that can bite. There have been reports of fish dying shortly after eating live bloodworms and it was caused by the bloodworms biting holes in the fish's stomach and intestine. If the fish chew their food (Corydoras and Loaches usually do), this is less of an issue. But for fish that swallow their food whole, live bloodworms should be avoided.
*WARNING*
Frozen Bloodworms (Chironomid midge larvae) can cause allergies to some people. This is uncommon but some people do suffer from an adverse reaction when handling frozen bloodworms. Most reactions are mild with the person's skin becoming red and irritated, but it can be worse and people have required medical attention after touching their eyes, nose or mouth after handling bloodworms and not washing with soapy water.
If you are using frozen bloodworms for the first time, get a few and rub them on your wrist and wait a minute. Then rinse under the tap and see if the skin goes red or becomes itchy. If it does, then you are having a bad reaction to them and should wash the area and your hands with warm soapy water.
Some brands of frozen bloodworm don't cause reactions in people and other brands do. We are unsure what causes the problem and it could be bacteria or other disease organisms on the bloodworm, or the red liquid they have on and in them.
Freeze dried bloodworms can also cause reactions but it is much less common than reactions from frozen bloodworms.
As mentioned by AbbeysDad and others, Brineshrimp (Artemia species) are perfectly safe for fish. They are grown in salt water ponds that do not contain fish. These ponds usually have a much higher level of salt than sea water and very little survives in them. Subsequently they do not have any diseases and your fish will not get sick from eating them or being exposed to the small amount of salt water they are sold in.
If the live brineshrimp have died in the bag at the shop and have been dead for a while, that can make your fish sick. If you see lots of dead brineshrimp in the bag, don't buy them. Dead brineshrimp are usually white or pale in colour and sit on the bottom of the bag/ tank and don't move.
-------------------
FROZEN SHRIMP
Deanasue mentioned frozen shrimp. These are prawns/ shrimp and not brineshrimp. Raw prawns and fish can carry diseases like microsporidia, which can affect fish and other crustaceans if they eat the contaminated flesh.
Shrimp and fish with a microsporidian infection will have a white appearance in the muscle tissue. This should not be confused with cooked prawns where the muscle tissue in the prawn tail turns white because of the cooking. If you buy a packet or raw frozen prawns, they should have a semi transparent appearance to their tail. If you see one that is white or cream, that one has a microsporidian infection and should be cooked or thrown out.
-------------------
BLOODWORMS
Bloodworms (Chironomid midge larvae) are normally sold frozen. Some brands are collected in sewer ponds and contain bad bacteria, which can cause fish to get sick. Freezing does not kill most bacteria and they simply go dormant, and re-awaken when they warm up. To overcome this problem, a number of companies that sell frozen bloodworms irradiate them to kill any disease organisms on the bloodworms and make them safe for the fish. Other companies don't irradiate the bloodworms and these untreated bloodworms can make some fish sick if they have bad bacteria on them.
Bloodworms also have a very hard head that cannot be digested by fish. The head can sometimes get lodged in the fish's intestine and cause a blockage, and this causes the fish to bloat up and die. You can prevent this buy using a pair of scissors to cut the head off the bloodworm and throw it away. You can also just cut the bloodworms into small pieces with a pr of scissors and that usually stops the problem.
Draining frozen bloodworms can help remove a lot of the red liquid from them and this can reduce problems with fish eating them and keep the tank cleaner. You put some frozen bloodworms into a fine mesh fish net and hang the net over a plastic bowl/ container. Leave it to defrost for a few minutes and a lot of the red liquid will drain out of the bloodworms and collect in the bowl. The bloodworms can be fed to the fish and the red liquid can be poured on the garden.
*NB* Don't let your pets eat or drink this red liquid.
*NB* If the frozen bloodworms are white or grey, do not use them. These have been dead for sometime before they were packaged and have no value and could cause the fish to get sick.
Bloodworms are also sold as live food in some places (mostly Asia) and these should be avoided. The bloodworm has a hard head and sharp set of jaws that can bite. There have been reports of fish dying shortly after eating live bloodworms and it was caused by the bloodworms biting holes in the fish's stomach and intestine. If the fish chew their food (Corydoras and Loaches usually do), this is less of an issue. But for fish that swallow their food whole, live bloodworms should be avoided.
*WARNING*
Frozen Bloodworms (Chironomid midge larvae) can cause allergies to some people. This is uncommon but some people do suffer from an adverse reaction when handling frozen bloodworms. Most reactions are mild with the person's skin becoming red and irritated, but it can be worse and people have required medical attention after touching their eyes, nose or mouth after handling bloodworms and not washing with soapy water.
If you are using frozen bloodworms for the first time, get a few and rub them on your wrist and wait a minute. Then rinse under the tap and see if the skin goes red or becomes itchy. If it does, then you are having a bad reaction to them and should wash the area and your hands with warm soapy water.
Some brands of frozen bloodworm don't cause reactions in people and other brands do. We are unsure what causes the problem and it could be bacteria or other disease organisms on the bloodworm, or the red liquid they have on and in them.
Freeze dried bloodworms can also cause reactions but it is much less common than reactions from frozen bloodworms.
Thank you for the detailed responses Colin et al.
For now I have bought some live brineshrimp from a person who says he cultivates them in RO water and that “hes never had any problems”.
If it’s not much trouble ill grow my own just for that extra peace of mind of knowing what they have come into contact with. I’m always aware of sellers, in some cases, lying through their teeth to get a sale.
For now I have bought some live brineshrimp from a person who says he cultivates them in RO water and that “hes never had any problems”.
If it’s not much trouble ill grow my own just for that extra peace of mind of knowing what they have come into contact with. I’m always aware of sellers, in some cases, lying through their teeth to get a sale.
Sellers can say what they want, but live brineshrimp are always grown and kept in salt water, so the risk of diseases coming from them and affecting freshwater fish is basically zero. If the brineshrimp are alive and kept in clean salt water (water that isn't cloudy or smells bad), they are fine for fish.
If you want to culture your own, the following link has some information about them. It is about half way down. Baby brineshrimp are easy to hatch from their dry brown eggs, but it takes about a month (depending on temperature) for them to grow into adult brineshrimp. During this time they need food and most people feed them green water (algae) or yeast. The link below has a section on culturing green water and is designed for freshwater, but the same directions can be used to culture algae in salt water, which can be used to grow brineshrimp in. You can also culture Daphnia and Rotifers in green water, and you might get mozzie larvae appearing in culture containers and these should be scooped out with a net and fed to the fish.
www.fishforums.net
If you want to culture your own, the following link has some information about them. It is about half way down. Baby brineshrimp are easy to hatch from their dry brown eggs, but it takes about a month (depending on temperature) for them to grow into adult brineshrimp. During this time they need food and most people feed them green water (algae) or yeast. The link below has a section on culturing green water and is designed for freshwater, but the same directions can be used to culture algae in salt water, which can be used to grow brineshrimp in. You can also culture Daphnia and Rotifers in green water, and you might get mozzie larvae appearing in culture containers and these should be scooped out with a net and fed to the fish.
Back to Basics when Breeding Fish
STARTING OUT Make sure you have a pair, (1 male + 1 female). There is nothing worse than spending your hard-earned dollars buying a couple of fish to try and breed and ending up with a pair of fish of the same sex. Let's face it, to reproduce fish you need a male and a female. Two males won't do...
www.fishforums.net
If you grow Brineshrimp in green water, it is a lot cleaner than using yeast as a food.
-----------------------
It is perfectly fine to feed adult fish with newly hatched Brineshrimp. My rainbowfish would go nuts when I put some in their tank and the rainbows were about 4 inches long. They would zip around everywhere picking up the tiny nauplii (baby Brineshrimp) and then come back begging for more.
I did the same as you Deanasue, feed the baby fish with newly hatched Brineshrimp and then add some to the tanks with bigger fish in. They have a very high nutritional value and give the fish something to do (chase the food).
The only time some adult fish didn't eat the nauplii was when I put some in a tank with a pair of Apistogramma cacatuoides who had babies. I actually put the Brineshrimp nauplii in for the babies to eat. Well the mother fish was feeling very motherly and rounded up the baby Brineshrimp and brought them into the nest with the baby fish. She was guarding the Brineshrimp like her own kids but the baby fish were eating the nauplii. I feel sorry for the mother, she must have thought what the hell are they doing?
I had another pair of Apistogrammas that did the same thing with live Daphnia. They rounded the Daphnia up and kept them in a nest. The Daphnia would swim off and the parents would grab them in their mouth and spit them back into the nest. I can imagine the Daphnia going "I'm getting out of here". Then the fish grabs it in its mouth and the Daphnia say "well, I'm boned". Then it gets spat out into a nest with two doting parents watching your every move.
Sad but funny!If you grow Brineshrimp in green water, it is a lot cleaner than using yeast as a food.
-----------------------
It is perfectly fine to feed adult fish with newly hatched Brineshrimp. My rainbowfish would go nuts when I put some in their tank and the rainbows were about 4 inches long. They would zip around everywhere picking up the tiny nauplii (baby Brineshrimp) and then come back begging for more.
I did the same as you Deanasue, feed the baby fish with newly hatched Brineshrimp and then add some to the tanks with bigger fish in. They have a very high nutritional value and give the fish something to do (chase the food).
The only time some adult fish didn't eat the nauplii was when I put some in a tank with a pair of Apistogramma cacatuoides who had babies. I actually put the Brineshrimp nauplii in for the babies to eat. Well the mother fish was feeling very motherly and rounded up the baby Brineshrimp and brought them into the nest with the baby fish. She was guarding the Brineshrimp like her own kids but the baby fish were eating the nauplii. I feel sorry for the mother, she must have thought what the hell are they doing?
I had another pair of Apistogrammas that did the same thing with live Daphnia. They rounded the Daphnia up and kept them in a nest. The Daphnia would swim off and the parents would grab them in their mouth and spit them back into the nest. I can imagine the Daphnia going "I'm getting out of here". Then the fish grabs it in its mouth and the Daphnia say "well, I'm boned". Then it gets spat out into a nest with two doting parents watching your every move.
I’ve bought a 500ml brineshrimp hatchery, brineshrimp eggs, desk lamp that emits enough heat, salt, air pump, spirulina powder and bicarbonate of soda.
Is it possible to grow the brineshrimp to an adult size in the small container and sustain them on the spirulina powder there? Any advice on this is appreciated.
Is it possible to grow the brineshrimp to an adult size in the small container and sustain them on the spirulina powder there? Any advice on this is appreciated.
AbbeysDad
Fish Gatherer
And here's another take on hatching brine shrimp.
And many more...
And many more...
You can, but I never really found it all that practical as there are many other sustainable live foods to culture that are much more prolific. But here's how David Ramsey raises adult brine shrimp.
I see that in that YouTube video that the person placed the brineshrimp in a much larger container. I’m guessing that once brineshrimp have hatched they can survive in very cold salt water, rather than the 26-27 degrees C and light source that is needed for their hatching?And here's another take on hatching brine shrimp.
And many more...
You can, but I never really found it all that practical as there are many other sustainable live foods to culture that are much more prolific. But here's how David Ramsey raises adult brine shrimp.
Presumably I could put a container outside with them in? At the moment, temperatures outside here in the UK are between -4 and 5 degrees C.
I use to take my leftover water from my hatchery and dump it into about a 8QT container. The leftover baby brine shrimp would grow out in there. I fed spiruluna powder. I had to keep mine in a kitchen corner but most people keep them in a basement. I didn’t do it for long.
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