Lfs Told Me Not To Add More Fish

[Bebobb]

good fish shop, go there again, i wish mine did things like that. Im not sure the comment about the bn eating algae wafers is right though..

The bristlenose quote sounds perfectly logical to me, but I don't know if it is true. I agree with the man saying to wait a few weeks to stock. With a newly cycled tank, you should add your fish slowly, rather than all of a sudden.

 

[FWFishLover]

where do you live? i wanna go to your LFS!!
anyways he is right.

 

[waterdrop]

Assaye wrote:

Cycling to 2.5 ppm would take just as long. The reason we fishless cycle isn't so we can add all out stock straight away, it is so that we can battle through the initial population by bacteria without hurting our fish. Yes, you'll get a tiny mini cycle when adding new fish but once the bacteria are established, they can reproduce rapidly enough that the fish will barely notice any spikes. However, waiting for the bacteria to get going in a new tank is very difference and takes a long time. So we fishless cycle to avoid putting fish through that.

I agree with this and feel its important Mig that you not feel that your 5ppm fishless cycling is in any way "wasted" if you don't fully stock or even anywhere near fully stock. A good way to think of it is that the full maturing of the two colonies into really tough robust colonies with biofilms is going to really take about 6 months. The fishless cycling that we do, with our tests to have high confidence that mini-cycles won't take place or won't be serious enough to hurt the fish are just a significant milestone along the way. Its much, much better to have a robust biofilter that *drops down* to meet even the smallest first stocking than it is to be right at the balance point of fish and bacteria. This way the bacteria will be much better able to quickly respond to any addition of fish or change of situation in the tank.

Almost none of us ever fully stock a tank right after fishless cycling. I've heard of a few cases, species tanks and special things like that mostly. Instead, for most of us it ranges from 25% to 75% or something like that. You have to be exceedingly careful in conversations outside our forum discussions here in that sometimes people have completely different definitions of the main subjects being discussed. Even though this was the rare good hobbyist keeping a shop, he may not have had the same picture of fishless cycling that we do. Often beginners (in not so good shops) find that people use the term "fishless cycling" in a completely confused manner to simply mean fish not in the tank but nothing done to the tank!

Anyway I think your tank will be a much better environment for your fish than it would have been had you rushed things.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[cybergibbons]

I have found you need to be careful with the term "cycling". There's several posts where people come on each day and say "I've cycled the filter for a day/week" and it just means that it was turned on, and Stress Zyme etc. added. I think a lot of the better LFS will take the term with a pinch of salt.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

The reason I thought I could add a full load to the tank after cycling is because I have read it many times, including directly from the Fishless Cycling beginner's thread:

You can safely add your full fish load as your tank will have enough bacteria built up to handle any waste they can produce.

So what should I be testing for now that I am finished cycling, and how often do I have to test?

also - - make sure you get african DWARF frogs (adf) and not african CLAWED frogs (acf)

if it is albino - it is clawed. albino dwards do not occur.

check the feet!!!! webbing between the toes on all four feet - ADF .....webbing only between the toes on the hind feet - ACF!!!
also their eyes - if they are flush on the sides of the face - ADF .... if they sit onto of the head and are slightly protruding - ACF!!!

both are wonderful creatures and I own both.....but they require vastly different tank setups and ACF will eat any fish it can catch.

Thanks, Jenste. Excellent advice. I will write these observations down and take them to the LFS when I get the frogs.

So do I need to wait for frogs, or..?

 

[Jenste]

as long as you factor them into your bioload - you can easily add a handful of frogs into your tank. just remember that they are waste producers just like fish so they NEED to be considered into your stocking!

good luck and let me know if I can help in any way! I love hearing more people are giving these little guys home instead of using them as "fun" feeders

 

[waterdrop]

And you're clear that that's still true, right? You -can- proceed to fully stock a tank (by the inch guideline) after you perform a fully qualified fishless cycle as you see them done here. Nothing has chanced about that advice.

Its the -stocking- issues on a per species basis that are the usual cause to not fully stock. To fully stock, none of the chosen species could be of a type that need a longer wait (and they are decidedly in the minority - most species are ok for a first stocking in my experience)

OK, now to your question: for the first couple of weeks you should just keep testing as you have been for your fishless cycle although you only need to do it once a day. Unlike during fishless you acually might want to do NO3 more often if you didn't do to too frequently. After the two weeks you should begin to taper off and then go with once a week for a while and then it can taper down to even less. Eventually you will mostly only do ammonia and nitrite tests when you suspect a problem.

Nitrate(NO3) is quite interesting: your goal now after cycling is to watch to see if NO3 is staying roughly in the range of 15 to 20ppm above whatever your tap water NO3 is (or better (ie. lower)).. Nitrate is a flag substance that speaks for hundreds of other substances we don't want to build up in the tank and it tells you whether your water changes and filter cleanings are "doing the job." Staying at that 15 or 20 above or better tells you you're doing ok.

pH is also an important thing to now get a good feel for. It may slowly change some as your tank gets more established. Its a matter of just seeing if your tank is going to be in a good range or if its on the edge of needing some attention.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[K-Holed]

I'm sorry I don't want to cause an argument (famous last words), but I've got to admit that reading back through this thread, almost all the advice had been not to fully stock once fishless cycled. The fishless cycling thread does explicetly state that "You can safely add your full fish load as your tank will have enough bacteria built up to handle any waste they can produce."

Now ... either the beginners resource is correct, or it's not. (Or more likely still a case of everyone holding slighty differing views).

I've just found this thread to be a litte confusing and inconsistent.

I'm not suggesting anyone is wrong in this situation, I have opinions of my own too.

Kind regards

Jimi

 

[roadmaster]

I'm sorry I don't want to cause an argument (famous last words), but I've got to admit that reading back through this thread, almost all the advice had been not to fully stock once fishless cycled. The fishless cycling thread does explicetly state that "You can safely add your full fish load as your tank will have enough bacteria built up to handle any waste they can produce."

Now ... either the beginners resource is correct, or it's not. (Or more likely still a case of everyone holding slighty differing views).

I've just found this thread to be a litte confusing and inconsistent.

I'm not suggesting anyone is wrong in this situation, I have opinions of my own too.

Kind regards

Jimi

I am wondering if that which has been quoted with respect to fully stocking was a collaboration of like thoughts ,or simply an opinion.
For my money,, slow and steady yields the best results along with quarantine.

 

[Assaye]

The advise I always give people is if there are two differing opinions, go with the most cautious one.

Remember, we are dealing with living creatures. If one person says "you need to be careful here" and someone else says "nah, it should be fine, just do it", I'd go with the former until the latter is proven correct. Might take longer but it can't hurt, right?

 

[waterdrop]

Guys, I have to disagree here. We're doing something here that has to do with a forum having a difficult time retaining "found information" over time. It becomes difficult and people begin to think its just all opinion. Its not! Its not such a vague thing that "what it takes to fully cycle a filter prior to introducing fish" is a thing that works and can be repeated with decent reliability. Fishless cycling is "what it is", no more, no less. It is not "stocking". Yes, there are fish that should not be introduced to a tank at 2 months after its cycled and No, that doesn't mean the cycling didn't occur.

Now I admit that I've not been here all that long. My 2 year date is on display for all to see. But when I first got here I was helped by RDD, the member (and moderator) who wrote the latest fishless cycling reference we use in the BRC. I had quite a few discussions with him and other members at the time and read other discussions he had had. He's a real and sincere guy who lives not all that far from me, verified by friends and family outside this forum. I shouldn't speak for him but I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying he's a settled guy with kids now out of the house, educated at one of our top universities and has pretty long experience keeping tanks and trying out actual fishless cycling for himself. He worked quite hard to re-write the FC articles that were around at the time on this forum and refine and verify them with the most used write-ups at other sites. I personally think he did a great job! The overall process and articles/discussions have been being refined since 1980, starting on usenet, which I and I'm sure any number of members here used to use.

I personally remember any number of experienced members jumping in to discussions at the time I was learning to verify that they had indeed performed full stock introductions (going the the "inch guideline", which we all know is not exact, but rough, but that's not the topic here) with no problems and no mini-cycling and not only no deaths, but with observations of good fish health (observations coming from people experienced keeping these same types in the past) rather than stress. I admit that my own first introduction was less than a full stocking, so mine is not one of those full-stocking data points, but I had certainly had many years previously as a hobbyist with lots of tanks and I knew what all the forms of failure looked like. The behavior of my fish at first introduction after fishless cycling was as good as I'd -ever- seen and stayed that way, with a stability I'd never seen in those former times.

Members who have read my posts over a longer portion of the time I've been here I hope would say that I'm a good advocate of patience and of slow stocking and carefulness in the right context. But in this thread the statements of an LFS owner have somehow begun to sound to me to have been taken as something that is -diluting- the established value of the basic fishless cycling principle and I'm getting the feeling I have to stand up for it! (gee, , in my dreams, rdd1952, BTT, OM47, Miss Wiggle, rabbut and a good deal of the mods would come back to help me!)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[kaivalagi]

This topic has been an interesting read

I have to say that Waterdrop knows what he's talking about, I wouldn't hesitate following his lead...I have raised a variety of newbie questions and Waterdrop has always made perfect sense of it all.

Thanks for setting the record straight Waterdrop...

 

[K-Holed]

A fair point well made WD. In hindsight I think the issue was one of context. After rereading all the posts as indiviudals, some of them weren't denying that you can fully stock. I think the issue was one of the posts within the context of other posts, giving a contradictory feel to the thread.

Kind regards

Jimi

 

[roadmaster]

Was not trying to confuse anyone, merely voicing my opinion based on my own expieriences.
I have not been here long but thus far,, I have read mostly nothing but good advice. I have used all methods for allowing a tank to mature or (cycle) from liquid ammonia,live fish,prawn or shrimp,fish food,and seed material from disease free existing tanks. Depending on things like pH ,temp, available oxygen ,and or surface area available for bacteria to colonize,, I have expierienced different rates of bacteria development.
Have had good success with all methods and expierienced less than desired results as well.
For me,,,,, I Always stock gradually regardless of method used for developing the biological filter and always quarantine new fish. Not much in my view,more frustrating than waiting for biological filter to develop to suitable proportions only to introduce a bunch of fish that may or may not harbor some parasite or bacterial pathogen and then decide what particular pathogen it might be.
By stocking gradually ,one can keep fish in quarantine to prevent possible spread of afore mentioned parasites or other pathogens while at the same time, allow the tank to mature. Opinions Vary.

 

[jennybugs]

Wholesae Tropicals is my LFS and it does depend on who you talk to as to how accurate the advice is.

In general the shop and the stock are fantastic. The owner Terry (senior) has years of knowledge and experience under his belt and give good advice. His son Terry (junior) the loud, fat bald guy as he calls himself knows his onions completely and his advice is great. Some of the younger lads are sons of Terry junior and are still learning their 'trade' so I tend to get served by the two Terrys.

All in this shop is great and when I ever move away I will miss them I have to say.

Just my thoughts. Interesting thread