LED lighting ??

[Tropicanafishbanana]

so im looking at led lights that grow plants well and they are expensive,
now ive built led strip lights for plants alot, had them allover the house it was so easy to do, but everything seems to say ''water plants in a tank'' have different requirements or need CCT etc ? i cant find a definative on spectrums, most mix them and leading fulvals etc change spectrum all day long ??
on indoor plants i used 4k lights and 6k lights for green growth , the 3500 was used in flowering plants though classed as full spectrum balance,

can i not use the same lights ? theres some strips called bridgelux eb gen 3 which are full spectrum from 2700-6k strips, 1ft strips
on my tank can i not just make a 5k strip light 60w at 700ma ?
or will certain lights hurt the fish ? whats the score here ??

 

[FishHobby99]

Did you check at Amazon? Some reasonably priced led strips there.

 

[Byron]

One difference between terrestrial and aquatic plants is algae issues that can occur in the aquarium if the lighting is not pretty close to perfect, and balanced with available nutrients. This is not an issue for house plants obviously. And plants in the air have access to sunlight (direct or diffused, it is still sunlight) so the spectrum is always what they need. Aquatic plants depend upon us to provide the correct spectrum, and yes, it is as important as the intensity.

The best guide is to use light with a Kelvin rating in the 5000K to 6500K range. This is high in the red, blue and green, similar to sunlight. This does not mean you can have lights coloured red, blue or green--the light must be white light that is high in these colour wavelengths.

Light does affect fish, and generally they would prefer no overhead tank light at all; ambient room light is often close to their natural habitat light. But the white light in the 5000K-6500K range is fine. The main issue with light is the plants' requirements. If the light is not balanced with nutrients, plants cannot photosynthesize fully and algae has the advantage, and here we are talking about real problem algae which can only be controlled in a planted tank by the correct light, in terms of intensity, spectrum and duration.

 

[FishHobby99]

One difference between terrestrial and aquatic plants is algae issues that can occur in the aquarium if the lighting is not pretty close to perfect, and balanced with available nutrients. This is not an issue for house plants obviously. And plants in the air have access to sunlight (direct or diffused, it is still sunlight) so the spectrum is always what they need. Aquatic plants depend upon us to provide the correct spectrum, and yes, it is as important as the intensity.

The best guide is to use light with a Kelvin rating in the 5000K to 6500K range. This is high in the red, blue and green, similar to sunlight. This does not mean you can have lights coloured red, blue or green--the light must be white light that is high in these colour wavelengths.

Light does affect fish, and generally they would prefer no overhead tank light at all; ambient room light is often close to their natural habitat light. But the white light in the 5000K-6500K range is fine. The main issue with light is the plants' requirements. If the light is not balanced with nutrients, plants cannot photosynthesize fully and algae has the advantage, and here we are talking about real problem algae which can only be controlled in a planted tank by the correct light, in terms of intensity, spectrum and duration.

Dang, Bryon, you’re so smart. Nice to see you hail from my home state. GO Niners!

 

[Uberhoust]

The best guide is to use light with a Kelvin rating in the 5000K to 6500K range. This is high in the red, blue and green, similar to sunlight. This does not mean you can have lights coloured red, blue or green

LEDS with white light LEDs that use a phosphor or other means to generate a full spectrum "white" light with a high CRI (Color Rendering Index) can use the Kevin rating to determine their usefulness in aquarium lighting.

LEDs that do not use white LEDs might also be usable for lighting but you cannot use the Kelvin value because the discrete LED wavelengths may or may not correspond to the various ranges of light frequencies that the various chlorophylls and accessory pigments use. For these types of lamps another type of rating might be better such as PAR (Photosynthetic Active Radiation). The pink and blue grow LEDs would fit in this category.

Most LED light bar manufacturers for aquariums that I have seen use one or more white LED types, then some discrete LEDs red, green, and or blue to balance out the spectrum.

I looked up your light strips. The ones I would use are found here: https://bridgelux.com/sites/default... EB Series Thrive Data Sheet 081320 Rev A.pdf. If it was me I would source the 6500 k strips and the 20 volt power, for safety reasons, even though they don't provide as many lumens. The CRI for these lights is 98%. I think you could build a pretty good lamp with these lights. I would also consider the 5000k or 5700k strips because they have more red in the spectral distribution and the 6500k lights are often low at this end of the spectra, alternatively you could add some discrete red LED to show off reds in your plants or fish.

 

[Tropicanafishbanana]

One difference between terrestrial and aquatic plants is algae issues that can occur in the aquarium if the lighting is not pretty close to perfect, and balanced with available nutrients. This is not an issue for house plants obviously. And plants in the air have access to sunlight (direct or diffused, it is still sunlight) so the spectrum is always what they need. Aquatic plants depend upon us to provide the correct spectrum, and yes, it is as important as the intensity.

The best guide is to use light with a Kelvin rating in the 5000K to 6500K range. This is high in the red, blue and green, similar to sunlight. This does not mean you can have lights coloured red, blue or green--the light must be white light that is high in these colour wavelengths.

Light does affect fish, and generally they would prefer no overhead tank light at all; ambient room light is often close to their natural habitat light. But the white light in the 5000K-6500K range is fine. The main issue with light is the plants' requirements. If the light is not balanced with nutrients, plants cannot photosynthesize fully and algae has the advantage, and here we are talking about real problem algae which can only be controlled in a planted tank by the correct light, in terms of intensity, spectrum and duration.

thanks buddy, so 5k is good still lol,
but i do believe that 5k lights typicialy only produce around 5-8% red, 3500 producing 11% and 2700 producins around 15% so i dont think atall the 5k and up has much to any red at all as there specificaly blued up and used to green growth, they have no useful photons for plants requring red light,
if reds definatly needed then id consider 2700 and 5k mix, and 5k and mono red 660s, to boost the factor but 6500 has almost no red spikes,

im going to get some strips i have currently avalible the bxeb 1ft 5k and 2700k led strips and run them on a dimmer at 500ma max using meanwells drivers, there 171lumen per watt also and dont require heatsinks until 1.4a will run 65 watt total, each strip is capable of around 12.5w so mix 3 of each and dim them to 20watt, the added extra wil do for my tank upgrade at xmas,
led and driver

i prefere to build them as i know how to and the cost is just crazy for what they are i cant buy somthing for £100 when i know i can make it for £30 probly better,

the alge,,.. wel most my tank is algee cleaners so thats welcomed

 

[StandbySetting]

Plus one for building your own rig! I have done so in the past with excellent results, for as little as £15-20 you can rig yourself a decent set up with some 3W 6500K LED'S if you can solder. I have read through the thread and apologies if I missed it but what are the tank dimensions and volume?

 

[Byron]

but i do believe that 5k lights typicialy only produce around 5-8% red, 3500 producing 11% and 2700 producins around 15% so i dont think atall the 5k and up has much to any red at all as there specificaly blued up and used to green growth, they have no useful photons for plants requring red light,
if reds definatly needed then id consider 2700 and 5k mix, and 5k and mono red 660s, to boost the factor but 6500 has almost no red spikes,

This doesn't quite hold up I'm afraid. The sun at midday is in the 6000K range, and it is high in the red, blue and green which definitely benefits plants, which have evolved to function under this spectrum. Scientifically-controlled studies definitely proved that aquarium plants grew best with light around the 6500K range. Diana Walstad opinioned that the better performance of plants here was the parallel to the sun but also likely due to the fact that such light is more intense. This plays out in manufactured T8 fluorescent tubes. The T8 Life-Glo at 6500K is more than double the intensity of the same sized tube in the Aqua-Glo line and the latter is high in red and blue but not green.

 

[Tropicanafishbanana]

This doesn't quite hold up I'm afraid. The sun at midday is in the 6000K range, and it is high in the red, blue and green which definitely benefits plants, which have evolved to function under this spectrum. Scientifically-controlled studies definitely proved that aquarium plants grew best with light around the 6500K range. Diana Walstad opinioned that the better performance of plants here was the parallel to the sun but also likely due to the fact that such light is more intense. This plays out in manufactured T8 fluorescent tubes. The T8 Life-Glo at 6500K is more than double the intensity of the same sized tube in the Aqua-Glo line and the latter is high in red and blue but not green.

610 - 720 nm or 2700k light This is the red band. Large amount of absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and most significant influence on photosynthesis.

• Yield results are very close for ‘Red/Blue’, ‘Warm (3000K)’, ‘MIGRO (3500K)’ & ‘Neutral (4000K)
• Green is almost as effective as Red in photosynthetic efficiency
• Adding more blue results in less productivity
• Using only Blue, Red or Green light is not efficient (mixing with other spectrum is better)

• Overall Conclusion: The combination of grow light system efficiency and photosythetic efficiency demonstrate that COB technology with full spectrum light in the 3000K – 4000K is ideal for healthy growth​

• The most significant findings from the experiment are:
  
  
  • The Red/Blue and MIGRO (3500K) spectrum are best for balancing yield and short stem length
  • Green light and Red light are closely matched for photosynthetic efficiency (within 5%)
  • You need at least 12% Blue light to prevent stretching
  • As you increase Blue light over 15% the stem length reduces but yield also reduces
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  The experiments have shown that a mix of spectrum is best. From the mixed spectrum you can chose to target shorter plant height or higher growth rate. This can be a matter of preference as to what suits your situation. For example if you have a small space you may wish to sacrifice a little yield so that your plants stay short with dense growth. In this case you would chose a spectrum with more blue light..

The experiments have shown that a mix of spectrum is best. From the mixed spectrum you can chose to target shorter plant height or higher growth rate. This can be a matter of preference as to what suits your situation. For example if you have a small space you may wish to sacrifice a little yield so that your plants stay short with dense growth. In this case you would chose a spectrum with more blue light..

in terms of plants in 10k ..6500 vs 10000 (assuming the same manufacturer) will bring you no difference in plant growth. Both are within the optimal range for aquatic growth, though different brands have different spectral ranges. The only real difference between the two will be the difference in perception for the human eye
the only difference is that 10k has literatly no red and can be harmful to human eye, so cant see any gain, ive done alot of plant growing with leds testing spectrums etc, i found more negatives in health when focusing 6500k only and not adding mono reds 660 or 2700k strips,
also 730nm far red is missing for most of these if you want to minnic sun this spectrums pretty new to medias attension but is stupid important for homrone control and sleet periods of plants and animals alowing bodyclocks to shut down to sleep mode faster, growth increases aswel as health when timed right .. but dont see talk on that ??

 

[Byron]

Scientifically-controlled studies have shown that aquatic plants grew strongest under light having a CRI in the 80-100 range or/and a Kelvin in the 5000K to 7000K range. The study is referenced in Diana Walstad's book, and she comments on the results as follows:

I would argue that green-yellow light is what many submerged aquatic plants encounter in their natural environment. Aquatic light is not like terrestrial light where the blue and red wavelengths predominate. Aquatic light is unique. This is because the water itself absorbs red light, while DOC (dissolved orgnic compounds) absorbs blue light. What's leftover for plant photosynthesis is mainly green-yellow light. Aquatic plants may have adapted their photosynthetic machinery (over the course of evolution) to use green-yellow light fairly efficiently. Thus, the assumption that aquatic plants grow best with full-spectrum light may not be valid. [p. 181]

 

[Tropicanafishbanana]

so a green yellow only?
these bxex have 80-90 cri, and the green is the main reason i used them as green was the forgotten photon its definatly a benefit to all plant life, these strips have very very high green compared to many lights out there, they outpreform most cob lighting hands down

 

[anewbie]

A lot depends on the plants you grow; depending on your situation 6500K flood lights for around $20 actually do a pretty good job but they lack some of the features of aquarium lights and the more sensitive plants might not do well with them. People who build monster aquariums sometime use them instead of aquarium lights simply because they are more cost effective but for these really large aquariums they work pretty well.

 

[Byron]

so a green yellow only?

No, that was not what I said. Plants must have red and blue which drive photosynthesis. But they have stronger growth when green/yellow is also high, along with red and blue.

 

[Tropicanafishbanana]

theres no red hardly above 6k..

 

[Byron]

Here are a couple of charts, first showing what plants need, second is the Life-Glo 6500K T8 tube which is about the best single tube (in T8 fluorescent, there are good and probably better LED lights available).