Koi In My 75 Gallon Community Tank

[Miss Wiggle]

I never see any negative effects, so what is the issue? The two times i ever used a heater all of my fish promptly died.

not surprising, you need to acclimitise the fish to the higher temperatures if they've been kept too cold for a long time.

the short term effects of keeping tropicals in cold water are not too bad, they may live for months or even years and be ok. However they will be constantly battling with they're immune system, by keeping them in the wrong conditions they're immune system becomes drastically weakened meaning if any hint of disease gets into the tank they're gonna catch it and will be unlikely to fight it off.

There's a big difference between your fish surviving and thriving

I'd strongly urge you to seperate the coldwater and tropical fish and get a heater and very gradually over a couple of weeks increase the temperature to acceptable levels. and get that koi in a pond!

I also think you need to have a talk with your partner about appropriate fish choices, yes it's lovely she wants to buy you a fish as a gift but in buying it she's taking on responsibility for it's life, this is not a descision to be taken lightly so she should make sure she has researched and checked that the fish is compatible with your other fish and set up. Next time maybe she should take you on a surprise trip to a fish store with some money to spend instead so you can make more appropriate choices.

 

[Tessla]

I had a short experience in keeping koi in a tank a bit bigger than yours. We had three that started out at the same size yours is now and within a few months had at least tripled in size, they were then moved to a pond. Unless you plan on building a suitable pond for the koi very quickly, you'll want to find him a new home. Your koi will also easily outcompete the black moor for food and likely slurp up the other fish while he's at it.

Your black moor should also be rehomed and a heater added, or all of the other fish if you want to set it up as a fancy goldfish tank with perhaps five goldfish. I'd suggest this not only because of the water temperature preferences, but goldfish are omnivores and he will likely end up eating your smaller fish and the shrimp as well as he gets bigger.

 

[fishboy619]

all posts before mine are excellent advice, get a heater and slowly raise the temp in the tanks. your fish might be alive right now, but will probally die quicker, be more prone to illness and generally unhappy.
the koi will definatly need a pond, and the black moor will also need cooler water.
you may have been keeping fish for 15 years, but doesnt mean you know everything, you may have never had a heater, but you will have always needed one.
i feel sorry for your fish in the past that have had to live in these cooler waters, surly you saw the fish in tropical tanks at the fish shop, what made you keep them in cold water.

 

[rob newland]

To all those that say koi need coldwater - that's not strictly true.
Admittedly they don't want full tropical temperatures, but from experience with koi in a pond, they are better if kept in a slightly heated environment - our pond is heated all year round.
Rob

 

[StarMaker]

all posts before mine are excellent advice, get a heater and slowly raise the temp in the tanks. your fish might be alive right now, but will probally die quicker, be more prone to illness and generally unhappy.
the koi will definatly need a pond, and the black moor will also need cooler water.
you may have been keeping fish for 15 years, but doesnt mean you know everything, you may have never had a heater, but you will have always needed one.
i feel sorry for your fish in the past that have had to live in these cooler waters, surly you saw the fish in tropical tanks at the fish shop, what made you keep them in cold water.

It's funny, I have gotten advice from a myriad of internet forums. When I have a hobby problem, I seek out like minded people that might have some help for me. That being said, I have never been put down like I have on this forum! What makes you the the expert? Just curious, because maybe you have a PHD or something. I do not have any type of degree, but trust me, there is no reason to feel sorry for my fish. I have never had a problem with them just "surviving" as opposed to "thriving" either. Any discomfort they have would have to be mental, since i see no external problems with them (perhaps you are a fish whisperer though, and in that aspect you have me beaten). My fish grow healthy and large, and in general have long life spans depending on their breed. I have never had massive outbreaks of parasites or sickness, and in fact i always considered myself lucky for this. It's funny how people assume they know everything, when in reality that is seldom true. To all of the nice folks who gave me friendly advice, I offer my thanks. I will even consider introducing a heater into my tank (maybe). To the Experts who treated me like an idiot, dont worry this forum is all yours!

 

[fishboy619]

i dont think i acted like "a know it all"
and i dont class myself as an expert, its simple knowledge that the species of fish you have are tropical water fish, therefore need warm waters. its like making changes to suit you, even if it isnt what the fishes need.i wasnmt trying to put you dont, but i was not only shocked, but also curious to why the hell you keep tropical fish in coldwater.
not that im calling you a lier, but you say you havent had any problem, no illness outbreak,etc. but how do we know this, dont shout at me and complain, im just saying, you might have had a disease in your tank you forgot about, or chosen not to tell us, also, how can you say your fish are happy, thriving and living well, when you have no warm water tanks with fish in to campear to,the outsides of the fish may look fine, but can you see inside, no. their bodies are designed to live in warm water, and are campromising b ecause of you, people keep goldfish in a small bowl, and say they look happy, but they have a shortened life span are are suffering inside.
i really hope you do get a heater.

 

[StarMaker]

i dont think i acted like "a know it all"
and i dont class myself as an expert, its simple knowledge that the species of fish you have are tropical water fish, therefore need warm waters. its like making changes to suit you, even if it isnt what the fishes need.i wasnmt trying to put you dont, but i was not only shocked, but also curious to why the hell you keep tropical fish in coldwater.
not that im calling you a lier, but you say you havent had any problem, no illness outbreak,etc. but how do we know this, dont shout at me and complain, im just saying, you might have had a disease in your tank you forgot about, or chosen not to tell us, also, how can you say your fish are happy, thriving and living well, when you have no warm water tanks with fish in to campear to,the outsides of the fish may look fine, but can you see inside, no. their bodies are designed to live in warm water, and are campromising b ecause of you, people keep goldfish in a small bowl, and say they look happy, but they have a shortened life span are are suffering inside.
i really hope you do get a heater.

I hope you really enjoy treating people like children. Change your name to FishWhisperer!

 

[three-fingers]

It's funny, I have gotten advice from a myriad of internet forums. When I have a hobby problem, I seek out like minded people that might have some help for me. That being said, I have never been put down like I have on this forum! What makes you the the expert? Just curious, because maybe you have a PHD or something.

The reason you are being 'put down' (though I wouldn't say most of the advice given here was putting you down) more than other hobby forums is either because this hobby involves living animals and because of this people feel it is more urgent to advise you (and brings out other emotions), or because in the past with other hobbies, you have not been doing the equivalent of keeping fish at the wrong temperatures.
You ask "What makes you the expert?", nobody claimed to be an expert, but when in comes down to it, a lot of the people here have more experience. How long you have been keeping fish doesn't say anything about how much experience you actually have . The people here are much more 'into' the hobby than you are, and have a much higher knowledge of the hobby.

I hope you really enjoy treating people like children. Change your name to FishWhisperer!

In that case, just enjoy your fish . In a while you will likely notice the long term affects of keeping tropical fish in subtropical temperatures, and wish you followed the advice of the others here.

Why you think tropical fish can survive just as well in tropical water as subtropical temperatures?
And when everyone here is telling you the same thing, why don't you believe them?
Ask yourself, why would anyone here give you false information?

If you are unsure about the information, I would start a poll in tropical chit-chat . A simple yes/no one like 'do you believe keeping tropical fish at subtropical temperatures would be OK for the fish?'. If you don't like the response, ask it on another forum, and so on .

And one good rule of thumb to use when keeping fish is that 99% of the time they do better in conditions that simulate their natural environment.
Tropical fish come from waters with tropical temperatures, and while the temperatures do drop down seasonally, they are adapted to tolerate them, not thrive in them.
A heater is not expensive (~£10 if you go for something simple), so you may as well try it again, slowly adjust them to the higher temperatures over a week or two, start with the heater set to the average temperature of the tank now. Your fish will do great at 24 degrees until you can re-home your black moor, and then you can set it higher to about 26(optimum for a tropical community tank). Some fish like it higher too.

 

[fishboy619]

i dont think i acted like "a know it all"
and i dont class myself as an expert, its simple knowledge that the species of fish you have are tropical water fish, therefore need warm waters. its like making changes to suit you, even if it isnt what the fishes need.i wasnmt trying to put you dont, but i was not only shocked, but also curious to why the hell you keep tropical fish in coldwater.
not that im calling you a lier, but you say you havent had any problem, no illness outbreak,etc. but how do we know this, dont shout at me and complain, im just saying, you might have had a disease in your tank you forgot about, or chosen not to tell us, also, how can you say your fish are happy, thriving and living well, when you have no warm water tanks with fish in to campear to,the outsides of the fish may look fine, but can you see inside, no. their bodies are designed to live in warm water, and are campromising b ecause of you, people keep goldfish in a small bowl, and say they look happy, but they have a shortened life span are are suffering inside.
i really hope you do get a heater.

I hope you really enjoy treating people like children. Change your name to FishWhisperer!

i am NOT treating people like children, i am mearly explaning how i feel about keeping tropical fish in cooler waters. i wasnt trying to sound like im an expert, or a know it all. just trying to give the facts, tropical fish need tropical waters.like three-fingers says, we all feel its urgent to get the point across as it involves live animals.
just to back up, i am not trying to be an expert, i am just giving the facts and opinions of my experiences.its not just me that has made the point of keeping tropical fish in lower temps. wrong.i am trying to advise the member to buy a heater and get thoses fish nearer the natural habitat than they are now.

once more, sorry for supposedy "treating you like a child" but i stand by my decision to what i said.

 

[StarMaker]

[/quote]
i am NOT treating people like children, i am mearly explaning how i feel about keeping tropical fish in cooler waters. i wasnt trying to sound like im an expert, or a know it all. just trying to give the facts, tropical fish need tropical waters.like three-fingers says, we all feel its urgent to get the point across as it involves live animals.
just to back up, i am not trying to be an expert, i am just giving the facts and opinions of my experiences.its not just me that has made the point of keeping tropical fish in lower temps. wrong.i am trying to advise the member to buy a heater and get thoses fish nearer the natural habitat than they are now.

once more, sorry for supposedy "treating you like a child" but i stand by my decision to what i said.
[/quote]

Nope, lots of people stressed to keep my fish at a warmer temp. But you were the most hostile one! It's all good, ill bring them up to 75 degrees. I dont see the huge difference between 72 and 75 though.

 

[demonmagus]

the fish will though, so are you going to take back the koi and blackmoor?

 

[smmetz]

Well, either way, sorry we didn't make you feel more welcome. I wish you good luck with your Koi and other fish.

 

[Tessla]

I do not have any type of degree, but trust me, there is no reason to feel sorry for my fish. I have never had a problem with them just "surviving" as opposed to "thriving" either. Any discomfort they have would have to be mental, since i see no external problems with them (perhaps you are a fish whisperer though, and in that aspect you have me beaten). My fish grow healthy and large, and in general have long life spans depending on their breed. I have never had massive outbreaks of parasites or sickness, and in fact i always considered myself lucky for this.

Sorry if you aren't feeling welcomed, but a lot of new people come on all the time with some really horrendous tanks (and I mean much much worse than yours in many ways) say something along the lines of what I've just quoted from you. Then they proceeed to blow off all advice with an "I've been keeping fish for years" type reply. A lot of people on here get a little impatient and exasperated at times, I've been questioned many times about my fishkeeping.

Saying that your fish have lived long lives and gotten large is subjective... is a year a long time? A few months? Is a foot big? Six inches? It means many different things to different people, so a lot of the forumites aren't very fond of this sort of statement. You of course also mention that it depends on the species of fish kept. The commonly accepted standards on this forum tend to be the wild size of the fish (or the largest captive size) and the longest lifespan in captivity. Tank conditions are compared to the most successful captive conditions, which includes pH, temperature, volume/dimensions, tankmates and salinity if any. Forumites generally ask for more specifics if not given species info and some proper numbers other than "a long time" and "big," without this information it is generally assumed that you aren't likely housing your fish in optimal conditions.

Hopefully that gives you some idea of where people are coming from at any rate, and what info people are looking for. It sounds to me like you live in a very temperate climate that allows you to keep tanks unheated (or a huge heating/air conditioning bill), I have to keep a close eye on mine year round to keep the temp stable as I have very cold winters and very hot summers.