Kh, Gh & Ph Levels

[JDS]

A couple of weeks ago, I decided to buy some live plants for my 120l tank.
I specifically picked out low light plants in the hope that some would live in my sub 1wpg tank.

I then decided to try my hand at DIY CO2 generation having read an article on this forum that reccomended CO2 for any tank with live plants.

After a bit of trial and error, I was fairly satisfied that i was getting a decent (but quite low) supply of CO2 (a bubble every few secs)

So then I went and got some hardness test kits, so i could calculate the CO2 levels ...

Current tank stats are
Ammonia & Nitrites - 0ppm, Nitrates 15ppm, pH 7.0

and the hardness ones
KH 13 deg (232.7 ppm), GH 20 deg (357.2 ppm)

Those are the readings I've just taken, the ones from 2 days ago were almost identical.

From charts ive seen, this means that my CO2 levels are about 40ppm which I understand is high.

So then I tested my tap water
pH 7.0 , KH 14 (250 ppm), GH20 (357.3 ppm) = CO2 high

I'm hoping for some advice on whether I should do something about this ..
Stop the CO2 or try to lower the hardness levels somehow or ... any other thoughts

Sorry I've rambled a bit and also not sure if this is the right place to post.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jon

 

[Bloo]

Have you read
this article on, pH, gH & kH ?

I generally struggle with the same horrid water - my tap pH varies anything between 7.6 and 8.4, my kH between 11-12 and my gH between 17 - 19. So not all that far off yours.

Not sure what the best way is to go about things but are you encountering any problems at the moment ?

 

[JDS]

Have you read
this article on, pH, gH & kH ?

I generally struggle with the same horrid water - my tap pH varies anything between 7.6 and 8.4, my kH between 11-12 and my gH between 17 - 19. So not all that far off yours.

Not sure what the best way is to go about things but are you encountering any problems at the moment ?

Hi, thanks for the response
I've not read that article , but I will do - thanks.

I've not had any real problems for a while now, tho i did lose one neon tetra about a fortnight ago, I couldnt see anything wrong with him tho.

Also, my plattys havent been breeding like i thought they would have done, I've only had one batch of fry this summer and none survived.
Having said that, I've just seen one and seperated him out. I'll keep an eye on him.
I've recently given away my plec (he'd got to 8" and was really too big for the tank) and also 3 of the plattys.
(I wonder if that had something to do with the new birth ?!)
I'd like to get some corys to replace the plec at the bottom of the tank, so I'd like to make sure they'll be ok in this water, before i actually buy them?

Thanks again for the reply, any other info/suggestions gratefully received.

Jon

 

[Bloo]

The neon might have died due to the hard water - I believe they are soft water fish.
I've never had any success keeping neons in my water, so have given up

The plattys could possibly have eaten their own fry (very common) and the 9" plec most certainly would have hovered up any fry.

Corys should be fine

Unless you have any real problems, I wouldn't bother adjusting the water parameters.

That article is a good one btw and certainly helped me to understand a lot.

 

[ncjharris]

That is a good article.

Something else that helped me understand was The-Wolfs post, here.

 

[JDS]

The neon might have died due to the hard water - I believe they are soft water fish.
I've never had any success keeping neons in my water, so have given up

The plattys could possibly have eaten their own fry (very common) and the 9" plec most certainly would have hovered up any fry.

Corys should be fine

Unless you have any real problems, I wouldn't bother adjusting the water parameters.

That article is a good one btw and certainly helped me to understand a lot.

I'd seperated out at least 1/2 dozen of the fry over the summer, and they all died off when I'd gone away for a weekend, tho possibly, my parents looking after the feeding in my absense may have had something to do with that ..

Thanks for the post tho, it's put my mind at rest a bit.
I'll check out that article and im sure a lot more besides tomorrow.
Gotta go now.
Cheers
Jon


Edit: I knew there'd be loads of good info here somewhere, It's just a bit tricky when the search engine doesnt allow short words, bit of a pain if you want to search for GH KH PH and CO2
Thanks again ppl

 

[JDS]

Hmm... Thanks for those links.
I've read them both (but will reread them when a little more ... erm ...... sober ))

For the moment tho, I'm going to continue with the CO2 and just keep an eye on things.
I think i'll give it a bit longer before adding the corys (Kinda like the look of the bandits!!)
And maybe will bring me some new lighting too

Cheers
Jon

 

[JDS]

Thanks again for those links. I've read (and reread!) them (sober )
I'm still not too sure about the CO2 levels - both in the tank and straight from the tap.
CO2 seems to be higher than recommended for fish ...
"However one must pay attention to the behaviour of the fish as levels higher than 35ppm are known to cause health issues."
(from gf225's "A Basic Guide to Carbon Dioxide, in the planted aquarium")

So, if santa does bring me some new lighting, would I then be more likely to need to inject CO2?

Maybe I should post in the planted section, but I'm trying to grow the plants as much for the fish as for the look of the tank.
So it's the fish health that i'm more concerned with.

Current CO2 production is begining to slow down now, should i keep it going or not?

Edit: 1 platty fry successfully celebrated 1 day old he's in a floating breeding trap with some bits of elodea to hide in

 

[zig]

Double check you are doing your calculations correctly, let your tapwater sit for at least a few hours or preferably overnight and then do the readings again.

 

[JDS]

Thanks, I was planning on testing it again tomorrow, so will check everything thoroughly and post again.
I didnt leave the tap water to sit very long last time, so that might make a difference...
Cheers
Jon

 

[Bloo]

let your tapwater sit for at least a few hours or preferably overnight and then do the readings again.

I always test tapwater straight out of the tap - because surely that's what's going straight into my tank
Why leave it overnight before testing ?

 

[@ombomb]

let your tapwater sit for at least a few hours or preferably overnight and then do the readings again.

I always test tapwater straight out of the tap - because surely that's what's going straight into my tank
Why leave it overnight before testing ?

I think the theory behind it is that some contaminents will evapourate off the water, changing the making of it.

I always test mine straight from the tap though.

 

[zig]

bloozoo the reason is without getting overly technical about it, water that is delivered via your tap is delivered under a certain amount of pressure in order for it to move through the pipes, water that is under pressure will contain more dissolved gases co2 o2 etc. basically the solubility of a gas in solution is directly proportional to the pressure it is under (in physics this is called Henrys Law) so at even low end tap pressure (30 lb psi....tapwater can be as high as 90 lb psi) you are looking at 3x times the amount of dissolved gases than is possible in your tank, and if you are at the high end of 90 lb psi pressure that is a huge amount of dissolved gases present in your tapwater (when its under pressure and thats the key)

So when you open your tap and take a sample, that water can contain more dissolved gases than water that has been let lie for a few hours, letting it lie overnight is better though, in some cases water coming straight from the tap will contain very high or very low levels of co2 (as in the origional posters case, he is getting very high readings of 42ppm co2 straight from the tap, this of course assumes the readings are being done correctly, which btw is a very common error so the origional poster should double check that they understand correctly how their testkit works and particularily how the calculations work also) if the water contains very high or low levels of co2 you will get Very high or low Ph and KH readings, but if the water is left to lie for a while the readings will revert to normal because the excess co2 will dissapate from the water or gas off as its sometimes called.

The opposite effect can also happen where water straight from the tap will contain very low levels of co2 (water will contain normal levels of 3-4 ppm co2) which can result in readings straight from the tap of very low KH and high PH, but again if the water is left lie for a few hours the situation will equalise and the normal levels of 3-4ppm co2 will occur and you will get correct readings.

bloozoo you should do it later, leave some water out overnight, first of all do a PH and KH reading straight from the tap and then 24 hours later do the test again with the same water, and compare both sets of results and i bet they will be different (and in the origional posters case they will be significiently different as his co2 level drops to the normal 3-4ppm)

The above explanation can also explain the false pearling effect that you see when you have done a water change the sudden reduction in pressure makes the excess gases dissapate from the solution.

 

[Bloo]

Thanks zig that's a fabulous explanation.
Though that said, my kH is always 11 or 12 and both tap and tank are always the same. I've never had any variation on that. But can understand that others might have.

I will however do as you suggest and take straight tap readings tonight and leave some water aside to take readings tomorrow and compare the two. Will report back tomorrow

 

[JDS]

Hi again,
Ok I've retested both tank and tap water but am getting pretty similar results to those stated before.

Tank
pH 7, KH 12 degrees, GH 18 degrees

Tap water left to sit for 5 hours (should be long enough zig?)
pH 7, KH between 11 & 12 degrees, GH between 18 & 19 degrees.

I've reread the instructions several times, and, while actually determining the colours is sometimes a little tricky on some of the tests,
Edit: oops ... fill clean test tube to line with water to be tested - forgot that bit
a ) adding a drop from a bottle into a test tube
b ) inverting the test tube a few times to mix it all up
c ) seeing if it changes colour
d ) repeating til it does
is pretty straight forward.

I'm using the API tests, so if I've missed something out, please let me know.

On the assumption that I'm doing this right and that my test kits are all ok, (bought this month from aquatics-online). Does this mean that my water has more than enough CO2 in it already and that I shouldnt try to put any more in via injection?
The current batch has pretty much stopped now anyway...

Thanks to all for responses.
Jon