Keeping plants and tank healthy

[Brian02]

So it seems like I would be better with a sand substrate then I could have fish that would be more suited to my water type? Corys and loaches prefer this type of water? I’m assuming with the mollies in my tank that setting up a new one would be too stressful for them? I could move them into the other tank with the snail and change the substrate in the existing tank and put mostly the water that was in there back in? Then move them back? Or is that all too much for them to handle and better just to leave as is just now? And try and manage the plant and algae health?

 

[Brian02]

I too have never used Tropica products, though they have a good reputation. The soil would be less of a problem if you just stay with soft water fish, as they will appreciate a lower GH and pH. Avoid livebearers, they must have harder water than here. But another issue is fish...if you wanted cories or loaches, this substrate may prove to be very problematical. Cories must have soft sand, loaches prefer this. The "nutrient" issues in plant substrates can also cause problems for fish that live on the substrate, involving bacteria and such. A 20g tank with no fish can easily be re-set with a fine sand substrate, that is your call. I did have a plant substrate some years back, and after two years removed it because it was too restricting with as far as I cold see no plant benefits either.

I am inclined to think the green botches on the plants is related to the fertilizers and not light. As I said previously, never add phosphates. The Tropica site says it contains "iron, manganese and vital micro nutrients" and "does not contain nitrogen and phosphor" which is good, but it does not say which "vital micro nutrients" and iron and manganese are themselves micro nutrients. But on its own, it might be OK, so use it until it is gone and then consider one of the better (in my view) products. I can list these if asked.

It’s almost finished now so any other product you would recommend would be appreciated. Thx

 

[Byron]

So it seems like I would be better with a sand substrate then I could have fish that would be more suited to my water type? Corys and loaches prefer this type of water? I’m assuming with the mollies in my tank that setting up a new one would be too stressful for them? I could move them into the other tank with the snail and change the substrate in the existing tank and put mostly the water that was in there back in? Then move them back? Or is that all too much for them to handle and better just to leave as is just now? And try and manage the plant and algae health?

Always begin with your source water parameters when deciding fish. Here you have water on the soft side so that is the primary factor. Most all fish from South America and SE Asia are suitable, so yes, all cories and all Asian loaches are better (healthier) with inert soft sand.

The mollies, I would return to the store, they are not going to be healthy in this water and it is a matter of them slowly weakening and dying. A 20g is not sufficient space for mollies anyway, they will (if healthy) attain 4-5 inches, some report females at six inches. But if you really wanted mollies, or any livebearers which all must have harder water, you could set up a larger tank (a 36-inch/90cm length is minimum) with a calcareous sand substrate and/or use rift lake mineral salts mix to harden the water. But soft water fish would finnd that very problematic. There is no real middle ground.

 

[Brian02]

Always begin with your source water parameters when deciding fish. Here you have water on the soft side so that is the primary factor. Most all fish from South America and SE Asia are suitable, so yes, all cories and all Asian loaches are better (healthier) with inert soft sand.

The mollies, I would return to the store, they are not going to be healthy in this water and it is a matter of them slowly weakening and dying. A 20g is not sufficient space for mollies anyway, they will (if healthy) attain 4-5 inches, some report females at six inches. But if you really wanted mollies, or any livebearers which all must have harder water, you could set up a larger tank (a 36-inch/90cm length is minimum) with a calcareous sand substrate and/or use rift lake mineral salts mix to harden the water. But soft water fish would finnd that very problematic. There is no real middle ground.

Ok thank you. I’ll contact the store and see if they will accept that. I asked at the store when I bought them how big would get as I know my 20g tank can be small. They said these would only be an inch or two but that Corys would get to be 5”. Guess I got bad info. I’ll return and reset the tank with sand and one settle look for some Corys. Thank you.
Any ideas what would do well with the snail?or maybe once the new tank is set up I could move him in with the Corys?

 

[Byron]

It’s almost finished now so any other product you would recommend would be appreciated. Thx

There are three that I recommend, and from the data online they seem to be relatively identical. They have all the micro-nutrients, and they have the macro-nutrients at reduced levels. Macro nutrients like calcium and magnesium frequently occur in the tap water (unless like me you have very soft tap water) so adding too much is not necessary. And the macro nutrients oxygen, hydrogen and carbon are not included as these occur naturally in the aquarium and at sufficient levels to support low-tech or natural method planted tanks. [High-tech with mega light and diffused CO2 is another ball game entirely.]

The other thing about these, so far as I have been able to discern, is that the 14 or so nutrients are in specific proportion to each other. This is important because some plants store certain nutrients, others do not; some nutrients in excess can cause plants to shut down assimilation of certain other nutrients. So the levels of each nutrient added must be in balance. The other thing is that two of these do not have any phosphate, nor nitrogen. The third does, but very minimal and as I use this particular one myself, it has so far as I am aware not been problematic.

The three products:

Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium. Do not get any of the other products under the "Flourish" label, just this one comprehensive. Except for their Flourish Tabs which are excellent for larger plants like swords and lilies.

Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti. Here again, none of the other products in the "Florin" line are necessary.

The Nutrient Company's TNC Lite. This is available in the UK, not in NA so far as I know, but I wish it was because it contains absolutely no nitrogen (nitrate) or phosphate, hence the "Lite" name. Do not get their TNC Complete as that has both and is more for high-tech (maybe).

 

[Brian02]

The GH at 166-216 ppm (ppm is = mg/l) or 9 to 12 dGH (the other unit used in the hobby) is borderline for mollies who like it harder. But having said that, I would not expect such sudden demise from this. However, I wouldn't consider mollies in the future as this hardness will affect them long-term.

Otos frequently do not survive if the tank is not established with algae, as JuiceBox explained. This is more likely here, though it could be something else too.

Which brand of aquarium substrate? Does it affect water parameters, do they say?

I would reduce your tank lighting to 8 hours daily; use a timer so it is consistent, this helps fish and plants and thwarts algae.

Which plant fertilizer. And do not add phosphates to an aquarium. There is more than sufficient phosphorus from fish foods, and plants will not benefit but algae will. This might be part of the green dot issue, I'd like to see a closer photo (with my eyes I can barely see the plants, lol).

Am reading some more on the water in this area. It is being described as hard, maybe it’s all relative though. With grains per gallon in my area of 11.6 and average for the city of 13.4. However it does note that because of the river the water is considered hard because of the calcium and magnesium in it. Is that something that could be harming the fish or plants?

 

[Byron]

Ok thank you. I’ll contact the store and see if they will accept that. I asked at the store when I bought them how big would get as I know my 20g tank can be small. They said these would only be an inch or two but that Corys would get to be 5”. Guess I got bad info. I’ll return and reset the tank with sand and one settle look for some Corys. Thank you.
Any ideas what would do well with the snail?or maybe once the new tank is set up I could move him in with the Corys?

There are no species in Corydoras that attain anywhere near five inches. Two inches is basic, a few might get a tad larger. Never rely on advice from store staff unless you personally know their level of knowledge to be good; very few are. I have one local independent fish store that has a public-use computer terminal so customers can research fish before acquiring them. That is a good store. I have been in there when the owner has even brought a customer over to me to answer their questions.

Provided the snail does not eat live plants I suspect it would be fine in any tank.

 

[Byron]

Am reading some more on the water in this area. It is being described as hard, maybe it’s all relative though. With grains per gallon in my area of 11.6 and average for the city of 13.4. However it does note that because of the river the water is considered hard because of the calcium and magnesium in it. Is that something that could be harming the fish or plants?

This is exactly why we on this forum always insist on numbers. Terms can be vague and misleading; we have had "hard" water turn out to be very soft when tested. Back in post #5 the GH was given as 166-216 mg/l. Mg/l is equivalent to ppm. And 166 ppm is equivalent to 6 dGH, with 216 ppm equivalent to 12 dGH. That is a fair gap. Take a sample to a reliable fish store and ask them to test the GH, but make sure you get the number and their unit (ppm or dGH).

 

[LostBear]

Thank you Seangee and Byron for your advice.

Much appreciated.

 

[Essjay]

With grains per gallon in my area of 11.6

That number converts to 11 dH and 198 ppm.