I’ve finally decided on stocking....subject to you lots approval. My indecision is final etc.

[Byron]

I too am getting confused. But one thing does stand out, as utahfish noted, the Scarlet Badis (Badis badis is the species). This fish really should be on its own, or in with "nano" type fish. I have had it twice, both times it would not eat prepared foods.

 

[Treestone]

Im confused, do you have multiple tanks and one is hardwater and the other one you are going to soften with RO water ir do you have one tank that is hard and you are attempting to soften that?
If the latter mixing soft water fish like silver tip tetra( super nippy tetra) with guppies or platies that are hardwater fish either the platies will suffer or the tetras will suffer depending on if water is hard or soft. If its in the middle both will suffer as mollies and guppies and live bearers do better with 10dgh and above, higher even better and tetras do well with around 7 and lower. The water requirements for livebearers and tetras are on the complete opposite side of the dgh spectrum.
As for Scarlet Badis, they belong in species only tanks. They are shy terrotorial and picky eaters that will lose out for food as they are so small and slow picky eaters. Cool fish but shouldnt be kept with other fish.

I thought it was widely accepted that silvertip tetras can thrive in water up to 20 dgh

 

[utahfish]

I thought it was widely accepted that silvertip tetras can thrive in water up to 20 dgh

Apparently not wide enough cuz i had no idea silver tips lived in brackish tributaries in the wild which would make them ideal tank mates for mollies and platies water wise. Though not nippy wise.
Other soft water fish not so much, and again while badis do well in hard water again they should be kept in species only tanks and even then are high maintenance fish.
Good to know about the silver tips, ive never had them because they are super nippy but always figured they were soft water fish like all the other tetra, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[Treestone]

They do have a rep for being nippy, maybe they'll be far better in a school of 10 or more (bonus they are pretty cheap compared to others). I was going to keep a big school in my 55g but instead got a school of Odessa barbs which you simply cannot beat the colouration.

 

[ClownLurch]

One tank at the moment. Hopefully being replaced in a year by a bigger one if Mrs Lurch falls in love with the fish which is looking likely as she already wants a small group of endlers in her home office.
Bigger tank would have RO water. Fish in current tank would have RO introduced gradually then swapped over into bigger tank. Other fish suitable to bigger tanks RO levels introduced at sensible intervals.
Im trying to future proof current tanks fish selection so as not to rule out any I’d like to add to the bigger tank.
Scarlet Badis ruled out for now.
Silvertips looking doubtful too.
Thanks everyone. I’m getting there....if only in my head.

 

[ClownLurch]

Hangabout.
I’ve just noticed myself booing the news that Apistos eat shrimps on another thread a few weeks back. If so the Hongsloi have just ate themselves out of a future home. Is it true?
If so then the WCMMs are back in the frame as their temp requirements clashed with the Hongslois and Wolasis.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Wouldnt have thought they'd be quick enough? Any entering the apisto's territory might have a hard time but orovided with enough plant cover I think theyd be ok (not an experienced answer though sorry)

I have seen large tanks with a good number of WCMMs and they looked great IMO, not to a fish to be overlooked

 

[ClownLurch]

WCMMs are a lot more available than Wolasis too.

Just thinking aloud here but how strict are fish temp ranges in general as various sites and books have different temp ranges for the same fish?
WCMM often listed at 14-22, wolasi at 23-26, Hongsloi at 23-29 but there are temp variations on sites. Would a temp of 22-23 be possible and thus keeping all 3. Room temp and sun would waver margins anyway.
Websites and books etc show various ranges for all three fish.

 

[mbsqw1d]

I think they cater for the seasonal variations they can expect to experience in the wild and so mid range is obviously best in the aquarium, however if you were to keep at the higher, then theyd do well to have a period of time where the temp is lowered

 

[Byron]

WCMMs are a lot more available than Wolasis too.

Just thinking aloud here but how strict are fish temp ranges in general as various sites and books have different temp ranges for the same fish?
WCMM often listed at 14-22, wolasi at 23-26, Hongsloi at 23-29 but there are temp variations on sites. Would a temp of 22-23 be possible and thus keeping all 3. Room temp and sun would waver margins anyway.
Websites and books etc show various ranges for all three fish.

First, the source of the information is important if the info is to be relied upon. The internet is probably, when it comes to this hobby, full more of misinformation than accurate, so knowing the source is key.

Second, temperature ranges. Reliable sites will generally have a range for "x" species with the understanding that mid-range is optimum in an aquarium where temperature is regulated (usually permanent), but temporary periods of warmer or (sometimes) cooler such as might occur during summer heat waves should pose no problem. But the extremes at either end are not usually considered OK on a permanent basis. There is nothing cut in stone, we are dealing with living creatures, but one of the big problems in this hobby is that aquarists frequently havee very little idea as tohow a fish "lives." When one researches this and understands the physiology of a fish and why something like temperature is absolutely critical to its well being, it makes more sense.

Temperature variation in tropical waters is no where near as extensive as some maintain. Diurnal variation might be a couple of degrees but often not even that. Seasonal variation is nearly non-existent; it is true that the onset of the rainy season does cool the water a couple degrees, but this is influenced by the warmth of the earth in the tropical regions, and cool rain is soon warm water. Fish can move in and out of different temperature water, temporarily; it is instructive to recognize that they tend to remain at the same level unless forced to change, and this is a more even temperature.

 

[ClownLurch]

I have seen large tanks with a good number of WCMMs and they looked great IMO, not to a fish to be overlooked

This is the way we’re going. Gonna try to get Long Fin WCMMs as Mrs Lurch loves em. But there doesn’t seem to be many around at the moment. Lots 15-18 months back I know.
A few guppies n Platys mixed in with them which we may need to start with.
What happens in the future happens then, wether a bigger tank or a couple of extra smaller ones.
Cycles done. I’ll do another big water change tonight if I come back from LFSx3 empty handed.
Thanks everyone.

 

[ClownLurch]

4 guppies being acclimated at the moment. I’ll finish this tea then put some tank water into their bag. Three additions of tank water over an hour is how i used to do it. Don’t tell me THATS changed since the 90s as well?
Thanks for your help and suggestions everyone. Especially @Byron @essjay and co whose patience must wear mighty thin talking the newbies through the same stuff time after time.
I just hope @Colin_T never finds out how close we came to keeping rainbowfish! OOOOPS! Twas for the right reasons though. Eight+ groups of the three we like would’ve pretty much maxed out the tank.......but but but.....there’s the exact same chimney breast to wall space on the other side of the wall that’d suit the exact same tank....it’s empty apart from a pile of dvds and the cats bed....he never uses it now any way....I’m sure he wouldn’t mind.
Stop stop stop.
4 Platys, shrimp and snails next. All the time looking out for long fin mountain minnows....anyone in the U.K. know anywhere that has them?

Ill start up a tank journal with pics n stuff in the appropriate forum soon.

 

[Byron]

4 guppies being acclimated at the moment. I’ll finish this tea then put some tank water into their bag. Three additions of tank water over an hour is how i used to do it. Don’t tell me THATS changed since the 90s as well?

Yes and no to your question here, lol. There is now scientific evidence that fish cannot possibly acclimate to substantive changes in GH and pH in a few hours; it takes weeks if not months. I know of professional fish exporters of wild caught fish who get the temperature even (basically) and then in go the fish (netted out of the bag so no bag water enters the tank).

I tend to vary, depending upon the species. Even though I recognize the scientific fact above, I still fuss more over sensitive species. I float the bag (usually having removed some of the water down the drain so the bag has less in it), then add a cup or so of tank water once, sometimes twice, at 15-20 minute intervals. Then the fish are netted out of the bag into the tank. It gives me comfort, though again as I say the evidence is that this really has little or no benefit to just netting the fish out to begin with. Temperature however is important, as a sudden change either way can shock fish.

 

[ClownLurch]

I’d imagine the dh was very similar as the LFS is only just over five mins drive away. 1971 or 72 was the last time I had guppies so it’s all new basically.
They’ve been named:Johnny, Buster, Finbar and Roger. U.K. listeners may make the connections between the names.

They seem to be settling in. Staying mainly in middle of tank half way between substrate plants and floating plant moving off to explore together or separately then coming back to the middle a minute or so later.
The cat took one look then went back to sleep which is as good as can be hoped for but we’ll be locking him out of the room at night for a while Until we know he can be trusted.

 

[seangee]

Yes and no to your question here, lol. There is now scientific evidence that fish cannot possibly acclimate to substantive changes in GH and pH in a few hours; it takes weeks if not months. I know of professional fish exporters of wild caught fish who get the temperature even (basically) and then in go the fish (netted out of the bag so no bag water enters the tank).

While I agree with that my approach is different. I live in a very hard water area and keep soft water fish (in soft water).
I know for a fact my LFS "hardens up" newly imported fish by putting them straight into hard water tanks, out of customer view. Any that are still alive after 2 weeks go on sale as "hardened" or acclimated. They are not - they are just the stronger specimens that have survived (so far). When asked they have acknowleged that the mortality rate for more sensitive species exceeds 50% - naturally this is built into their pricing

So my approach is to get them into their natural environment as soon as possible and only float long enough to match temperature. This also means they spend less time in the polluted water they have been transported or shipped in. Not an argument, not a debate - that's just what is on the other side of the coin.