Itchy Fish, No Spots!

[OptimusPrime]

i dont know for sure but from what i've read it can harm certain snails depending on how much salt per litre of water is added.  This is what i found on the Apple Snail site i've used previously.
 
A: Apple snails tolerate little amounts of salt if you slowly build up the concentration. Be sure that the salt is dissolved before you put it in the tank so that the snail won't get in contact with the pure stuff. 
If you see that the snails stay in their shell for more than a day, then lower the salt concentration (if it isn't too late)
Experiences with apple snails and salt from a reader:
"My pond contains several very large koi and we routinely use salt to control parasites. 
I'm happy to report that my apple snails tolerate 0.3% (3 lbs per 100 US gallons) of salt very well. 
We dose 0.1% ever 12-24 hours for 3 treatments.
As a side note, this also seems to kill the snail parasites as well.
 
I dont know what type of snails you have but i'd be very cautious about adding salt personally.  Hopefully someone on here may have had some experience of salt and snails.  I've found that snails and shrimps suffer bad from most of the meds\treatments you can use to heal fish.

 

[lisa2701]

Ok thanks for all the info... I will probably just remove them to be safe! I have a small tank I can pop them in for a while. 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yes, and be certain to SLOWLY increase the salt concentration...  You don't want to raise it too fast or that can cause more damage than the parasite!  I'd say about 0.1% increase per 12 hours.  But if you can't bump it up by 0.1% every 12, then just go for 0.1% per 24 hours.
 
 
I'd suggest you remove some water from the tank - dissolve the salt into that water (make sure it is GOOD AND DISSOLVED) and then replace it to the tank slowly.  If it were my tank, I'd pull out about 1 gallon (56G tank) and add sufficient salt to the 5 Gallons so as to bring the FULL tank up to 0.1% salt solution.  Then, every 5 minutes, I'd slowly pour ~1 cup of the salty water into the filter OUTFLOW to quickly disperse.  The entire process should take about an hour and a half - which should be plenty of time for the fish to acclimate to the new salinity.  12 hours or 24 hours later, repeat the process.  Remove 1 gallon and dissolve sufficient salt to raise the tank another 0.1% (same as the first day), and add to the tank the same way.  Doing this 10 times will bring the salinity to 1.0%.  If the fish look more distressed, you can lower the salinity again by adding freshwater (also SLOWLY added to the tank).
 
(This process is probably a bit slower than the fish would actually require, but I figure its always best to err on the side of caution...)

 

[lisa2701]

The snails are now happily exploring the other tank so I was just about to ask about adding the salt. Thanks for all the advice, I will keep you posted with how things go! 

 

[lisa2701]

Just an update- I put in half the recommended dose last night, slowly over the course of a few hours and then left fish for the night. Not only were they coping well with the salt I'd say the endler that's not looked good has been far more active today! Anyway, I. Popped one of these bubble curtains (sorry unsure of the proper name) in today to help with oxygenation and over the course of today I've added the other half of the recommended dose of salt in, they are coping well, playing in the bubble curtain and even the one that's been lethargic and secluding himself appears happier in himself, joining the group more often and definitely more active!

Just so as to be 100% sure I'm doing it right here's the info-

I have a 50 lite (10G) tank and the recommended dose on the tub was 1 tablespoon per 5g, so I've added in total 2 tables spoons, dissolved in tank water and slowly added to the tank over 20 hours total. Does that seem ok?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

So, you are at what salinity now?  It seems all good, most importantly the fish are responding well to it.
 
The treatment should last 3 weeks.  Continue doing water changes as normally required (with extra gravel vaccing) and replace the water with the SAME concentration of salt with each bucket full to not change the salinity...  Watch out for evaporative losses, as these will INCREASE the salinity.  I'd suggest topping off the tank just before doing the water change to keep it all the same.

 

[lisa2701]

So, you are at what salinity now?  It seems all good, most importantly the fish are responding well to it.
 
The treatment should last 3 weeks.  Continue doing water changes as normally required (with extra gravel vaccing) and replace the water with the SAME concentration of salt with each bucket full to not change the salinity...  Watch out for evaporative losses, as these will INCREASE the salinity.  I'd suggest topping off the tank just before doing the water change to keep it all the same.

I'll be completely honest, I have no idea what salinity I am at because I don't know how to work it out so I just followed manufacturers instructions!

I am currently looking at water life's sterazin which claims to work on parasites including gill fluke! I'm thinking I'd be more confident in getting rid of these things with medication rather than salt given I don't know how to work out %age of salinity in the water etc! At very least may buy it in just in case the salt doesn't work? Doesn't hurt to have it in the cupboard??

 

[lisa2701]

For future reference, especially given I am about to upgrade tanks, what do people class as a quarantine tank? I think the gill flukes ( if that's what it is) has came in with some new guppies bought a few weeks ago, and stupidly not quarantined! I live in a tiny house so space is limited but I do have a 25 litre tank which could sit somewhere temporarily with built in filter, has a heater etc but obviously it's not big at all, so if I were to buy half a dozen of something (for example Pygmy corries) how would they be in such a small tank? I have an extra bit of filter media in my filter in case of quarantining, so stupid of me not to use it and do the quarantine of The guppies, I'm mega annoyed with self for it!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Meds have an expiration date, salt does not.  So, it isn't good practice to keep meds on hand "just in case".  
 
 
if you went by the concentration on the box, then you are probably up to 1% concentration now, if you've added all the "salty" water to the tank.
 
 
 
A QT is nothing more than a small tank, usually at least 10 gallons minimum,  which you have on hand to put fish in before adding them to the main display.  Most folks with only one tank, just don't have a QT.  Once you catch MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome) you will want to always have ONE smaller tank in reserve, with a filter, with a heater, and ready to be up and running in no time.  It needs to have filtration, heat, etc...  Typically no substrate is used, because you need to be able to clean the floor completely, sometimes you want to see the poo, etc.

 

[lisa2701]

Fair point about the medication I hadn't thought of that!

As for MTS, that won't be a problem as my house size prevents me from having multiple tanks lol! House size is also the reason I can't have a 10G tank sitting around as I have no space for it! My sitting room is the only place with space and it will be taken up with the new tank!! Once I do the switch over to the other tank I'm going to have the 50 litre tank currently being used but not sure where I could put it... I will try work something out, even if only to use as quarantine until my new tank is stocked. I assume people with no quarantine tanks just take the risk and deal with any consequences as they occur?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yup.  
 
For me, before I had a QT, I would visit the LFS I was planning to buy from multiple times for about two weeks and checked on the stock I planned on using.  My wife didn't exactly understand why I was going to the pet store so much, and not buying anything (ironic, because she enjoys "shopping" but doesn't always have to purchase things).  I would take my son and he'd look at the other animals, and I'd stop over and check on the tanks.  If I didn't see anything strange in ALL the tanks, then I felt good about that visit.  I was able to get 9 neon tetras with no QT and had no problems...  
 
The key is to be a frequent visitor (not necessarily a purchaser) of a specific LFS (or more) and keep track of their tanks...  If they aren't dealing with issues that you can see, then go ahead and buy.  If not, then wait.  Impatience is the enemy of a fishkeeper.

 

[lisa2701]

That's really great advice and a fantastic excuse to go looking! To be honest I go to MA which is a good half hour drive away but have been in the shop loads and never seen any issues, tanks are spotless, fish all look healthy and The staff seem very knowledgable! The only other shops I have around is P@H, dobbies and a small family run shop which has gone downhill rapidly in recent years! They used to be the place to go for fish but last time I was in their tanks were grubby looking, there was multiple dead fish and even their selection was poor!

 

[lisa2701]

Bad news this morning! The little endler who wasn't looking good appears much worse this morning! He's lying on the bottom of the tank not really moving much, and he doesn't seem to be able to keep himself upright completely!! He can get himself upright but doesn't seem to be able to keep himself .... Is there any hope for him at this point and if not should I let him go naturally or help him along the way? Really disapointed to see him like this when I got up this morning!

 

[lisa2701]

Just wanted to let you all know that I have ordered fluke solve and plan to treat the fish with this when it comes! Seeing how poorly my endler is I don't want to mess around with this paracite! Fluke solve appears to be extremely effective!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Understood.  You are going to want to complete water changes to eliminate the salinity before starting the meds.


Just add the freshwater back into the tank SLOWLY, and the fish will be fine adjusting to the salinity drop...
 
I'd suggest doing a 50% water change, and refilling it with temp matched (as best you can) dechlorinated water, and take an hour or two to completely refill the water....  Do it in short additions.  If you can attach a hose to your faucet and run that at a trickle into your tank, that would be better.  If not, then just slowly adding the new water in will do it fine.