Issues with treating betta fin rot

[Lan Laoshi]

Hi everyone,

I need suggestions. I have a betta who I thought had fin rot. However, now I'm just not sure what is going on. I have treated him with maracyn 2, sulfaplex/furan 2, and kanaplex and followed the recommended dosing for all. Nothing has worked. I changed 25 percent of his water every other day when he was being treated in a 5 gallon quarantine tank that only had a bubble filter, a heater, and silk plants. His actual home is a 10 gallon tank that had been fishless-cycled before I got him and his in my tank mates are two Amano shrimp. So, I am at a loss for why or even how his fins are in this condition. His fins just keep getting worse. They've been continually deteriorating at various rates since I got him back in June.

Does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here? Anyone else have incurable fin rot? I've already read so many forum posts on treatment, but nothing has worked for me yet.

The attached picture is very recent.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Why do you say his fins are deteriorating?
Some Bettas have frayed looking fins (like yours) that develop naturally as they grow.

Your fish does not have finrot. Symptoms of finrot include split fins, red lines running through the tail and fins, milky white edge to the tail and fins.

Finrot is caused by poor water quality damaging the fish and allowing bacteria to get into the wounds. Your fish does not show any red lines and looks to be in very good condition.

The medications you used are all strong anti-biotics and should not have been used. They will have wiped out the filter bacteria and any bacteria in the tank and on the fish. So if his fins are still fraying after the anti-biotics, then it is not a bacterial infection.

You will need to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels over the next month while the filters recover from the anti-biotics. If you get any ammonia or nitrite readings, do a 75% water change each day until they go back to 0.

-----------------------
Do you have a picture of him from when you first got him?
If yes compare the 2 picture (before and now) and see how much difference there is.

At this stage I would move him back into the bigger tank and monitor him. But I don't think there is anything wrong with him.

 

[NoLa24]

As Colin said some betta tails are naturally frayed, but you said his are getting worse? I assume you mean more frayed? He looks healthy otherwise, eyes bright, fins not clamped etc. When did you first aquire him? Where his fins frayed at all then? Watch him as he moves around and his fins spread out in different directions. Does he have any holes in his fins? If so that is often an indicator of fin rot. While red lines can be present in fin rot they definitely aren't always. I was "gifted" a couple of bettas a while ago with fin rot. One had it mildly and only had some holes in his fins, the other was more severe and his tail fin had been lost almost to the base of his body with only brown coloring separating it. Neither had any red lines, both recovered and the worse one's tail fin grew back nicely. I used Imagitariums bacterial infection remedy, however I only used half the recommended dose and did 50% water change every day (instead of the full water change every other day as the bottle suggested) and added a tiny tiny amount of aquarium salt and they healed very quickly. Make sure to stay away from Metafix or products that contain tea tree oil, these are very bad for bettas! Anyway hope that was of some help.

 

[Lan Laoshi]

Sorry, I should have uploaded a picture of when I first got him. His tail was perfect the day I brought him home. Day two he got a tear and it's just been downhill since. I have a series of pictures documenting the deterioration.

 

[Lan Laoshi]

Also, he's been back in his 10 gallon tank for a while now. The kanamycin actually helped and his fins started to regrow, but then started to get uncers and fray again after a week. I don't know if you can see in the pictures, but at full resolution, you can see his fins becoming clear/transperant. It will do that and then dissolve away. His fins are horrible and just keep getting shorter and shorter.

 

[Colin_T]

Assuming it is a bacterial infection, how have you been treating it?

When using strong anti-biotics on fish you want to have the fish in a bare container with nothing but an airstone bubbling away and a heater to keep them warm. You add the full strength anti-biotics. After 24 hours you wipe the inside of the container down and change all the water. Refill the container with clean dechlorinated water and retreat with full dose anti-biotics. You do this for at least 7 days in a row. If the problem has been going on for a while then you can treat for 2 weeks but no longer.

After treatment you wipe the inside of the container down again and change all the water again and monitor the fish. If the problem continues then a week later you can try a broad spectrum medication to kill fungus, bacteria & protozoan infections. And that should have been the first choice of medications, something that contains Methylene Blue and Malachite Green.

If you don't use anti-biotics correctly, the bacteria can become immune to the medication and you have another drug resistant bacteria to try and deal with. This is why anti-biotics should only be used as a last resort.

If the fish continues to get ulcers it could have an immune system problem or an underlying disease like Tuberculosis.

 

[NoLa24]

I would use caution with doing complete water changes every day, as this can be very stressful to the fish and one who is sick this will be exacerbated. If the medication you used before was an anti-biotic only, I would get an all inclusive one for you next treatment. Especially since it didn't heal him the first time. Do try adding a little bit of aquarium salt in with it, i have done this for bettas who had nasty gashes on their head/body that had turned brown, extreme fin rot, etc when I got them, and that has provided very good results. I only use about 1/8 the amount it says on the directions, along with an antifungal/parasite etc, and of course water conditioner. Hopefully your guy gets better, he's such a good looking dude ☺

 

[Lan Laoshi]

Thank you both for the help.

NoLa24, yeah I love my betta. His name is Moon. He's so spunky and has the personality of a dog. Ive had him for about 3 months and when I first got him, his fins were perfection aside from a tiny hole (I had to put my face up to the glass to see it) and a little split in his caudal fin that I didn't notice until I got him home. The next day the tear was noticible. The fraying and disintegrating started there at about day three or four and has spread from that single point over the course of three months.

I have been hesitant to use aquarium salt because I've read so many conflicting arguments for and against while researching how to help my betta. But if you've had success, it certainly won't hurt to give it a shot. As much as I like having my Amanos in with moon, I should probably move them to my 20 gallon so I can treat him in his own tank.

Colin, I had him in a 5 gallon tank with a heater and a bubble filter. There were 4 silk plants I put in there to help keep stress down. I followed the direction on the medicine exactly. I might give methylene blue a shot but I ordered malachite green last weekend and it should arrive this weekend (hopefully!). I started with antibiotics because kanamycin was the only thing I could actually get in a store besides melafix and artemis. He lost a large portion of his tail over just 24 hours. I was freaking out. The kanamycin gave me false hope because he did get better for about 2 weeks where there was only regrowth and no ulcers or transperancy. Then, all of the sudden his tail frayed and he lost a lot of it again in just a few days. So, I used sulfa to try to give his immune system a chance to finish it off. He was good for a few days and then his tail started to disintegrate even while he was being treated.

The ulcers are limited to just the tips of his fins. They form where the fins have turned translucent and right before they start to disintegrate. I sure hope it's not tuberculosis, and he seems to be so healthy aside from his tail issues.

My water is very soft. 2/3 kh and 3gh. Might that be an issue for him? The only other time I had a betta I lived in a different county. I never had issues with that betta, but I know the water was different from what I have now. I know ammonia and nitrites aren't.becaise I test for those every other day and I've never had them above 0 since finishing the fishless cycle (I took his filter media out and put it in a bucket when I treated him in his tank and "fed" with the ammonia I used to cycle)

My friend had purchased two elephant ear females from the same petco around the same time I did and she also had issues with fin rot. So, maybe they were from a bad supplier and just have terrible immune systems. I just hope I can stop the issue before his caudal fin is gone.

Sobsorry for the long replies - _-

 

[Colin_T]

Methylene Blue will kill filter bacteria too so move your filter out when using it. However, it is quite a safe medication and treats most bacterial and fungal diseases so is worth a try.

Bettas naturally occur in soft water so your water is not causing this. You could try increasing the general hardness a bit and that might help slow down the problem. Most bacteria grow faster in soft water than hard water. But you would only want to increase the hardness slowly over a couple of weeks.

If your friend got fish and they have the same problem, then I would suspect the shop has a drug resistant bacteria in their tanks or the fish came in with a drug resistant bacteria and that is what's causing the problem. But try Methylene Blue and Malachite Green and see if it helps.
*NB* Malachite Green is carcinogenic so make sure you wash your hands with soapy water after handling the medications or working in the tank.

Keep medications away from children and animals.

Did your friend manage to successfully treat their fish, and is yes, what did they use?

Also wash your hands and arms with warm soapy water after working in the tank to make sure you get any bacteria off your skin. We don't know exactly what this is but it could infect you. If you have any cuts or scratches on your skin, I would avoid getting water from the aquarium on it. Use a pair of rubber gloves or just avoid going in the tank if you have any cuts or scratches on your hands or arms.

-------------------------
If you have the money, you could take the fish to a "fish vet" and have them take samples of the ulcers and put them under a microscope. That would tell you exactly what is causing the problem. But it will cost a bit of money (several hundred dollars).

You could try to find a fish vet at the government animal health labs. Most countries have a department of agriculture and they usually have a fish health section in them. They usually do free necropsy (autopsy) on fish, especially if the fish has something different. You could try to find out if there is a fish health section and see if they could take a small sample of the sore and ID it for you, without killing the fish first.

There have been a few reports over the last 6 months about Bettas with similar issues and I am concerned that new drug resistant diseases are coming out of Asia where the fish are produced. If there are new diseases or drug resistant ones, the government needs to be informed and new procedures for quarantining fish need to be implemented.

 

[NoLa24]

Yep, I think some of the suppliers have some serious issues going on right now. The LFS that I've bought several bettas from, one of the main reasons being is because they keep there bettas in emaculate conditions (as they do all there fish) recently received a shipment of bettas who all had white cotton disease (im blanking out on the technical term right now). Which is VERY contagious, and very hard to treat. Those suppliers need to have a check system put into place whether they like it or not.

 

[Lan Laoshi]

I have inverts in with moon that I don't want to harm or remove, so, if you think it wouldn't be too stressful for him, I would like to put him back in the 5 gallon hospital tank. I don't know the exact volume of water in the 10 but I have the 5 gallon all marked up for various water levels because I like to use exact doses.

My friend was not able to save her bettas. She has a koi plakat from the same petco who was completely unaffected and is doing fine, but the others are gone now. She was really upset and doesn't want to get anymore bettas after the koi is gone.

I'm vary particular about cross contamination in my tanks. Each tank has their own syringe (to fill up api test tubes and spot clean), buckets, nets, and siphon.

Quite a lot of the bettas at the store have poorly fins. I went in a lot of times and left with no betta until I found one who looked completely fine and lively. His tank was cycled and everything was ready for him when I brought him home. So I'm just really disappointed that his fins are now in such bad condition and it started the day after I got him - _- the betta I had 8 years ago (because that's how long its been since I've had a betta) was very hardy. He had to survive numerous 1 hour trips up and down the mountain and lived in a small uncycked tank, so I was constantly putting him in a cup to do a 100 percent water change. He went through a lot and never had any health issues.

Unfortunately, I doubt the government would even consider looking into a possible resistant bacteria strain unless it could be linked to a case of human or livestock infection I don't live anywhere near an aquatics vet or I'd at least see about getting a culture taken for a pathology report. I'm very curious as to what he actually has. I have to travel 45 minutes away just to take my rats to the vet. Our only local "exotics" is an avian specialist who's only in twice a week. Everyone else will only see cats and dogs.

Yeah petco doesn't quarantine, so both stores recently had a massive ich outbreak in all of their tanks thanks to the connected filtering system that they use. The one employee said she thought it was a supplier issue.

Thanks for the help and advice, you two. I really appreciate it. I will definitely let you know if malachite green (or methylene blue if I have to try it) works for my fish.

 

[Colin_T]

If it's easier to keep him in the smaller tank then do it.

You could talk to your vet and ask them if they can do a biopsy without killing the fish. They should be able to take a small section of the tail and stick it under a slide. They could also take a swab and send it off for culturing.

Governments should take this seriously because if it is a new bacteria or a drug resistant bacteria, and it gets into local waterways, it could cause problems to the local fishery, birds and other animals that have anything to do with water. Maybe contact your local department of agriculture and see if they have any concerns about a possible drug resistant bacteria affecting aquarium fish. Remind them that some people pour used aquarium water down the drain and you have concerns about it getting into the wild.