Issue with 1 Red Hook Silver Dollar

[Saj]

Hi,

Hope you are all well.

I have got a lot of advice from this forum, its been great, I have just ventured into fish keeping and the information from this forum has been invaluable.

But I have a problem with one of the red hooks, which I need help with, will try and provide as much information possible.

I got myself a Fluval Roma 200 with a Eheim 2213 external canister filter.

I completed a fishless cycle prior to bringing any fish into it

I currently have the temperature at the top end for the red hooks with it showing 80.5°F (26.9°).

I have just the 4 red hooks in the 200 litre tank. Using the Ammonia test kit, ammonia zero, nitrite zero and nitrate 10ppm (ensuring the bottle has been tapped and shaken appropriately).

I originally also had 3 Angelfish, and lost all three, I put this down to the fact that my pH went from 7.6 to 6.4 quite quickly and the angelfish couldn't cope with the change. The pH has been constant 6.4 for the past 4 weeks.

Water changes are done weekly, at 50% change and using Seachem Prime to treat the water. The water is changed with temperature corrected water.

I have the light on and off 12 hours each. I also have a powerhead being used to clear the water with filter floss.

Here is my set up:

Heres the Red hook in question:

Here's a video of him:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gLT0KI38hj2IWGAJ2

(hopefully the video will render into 1080p soon)

I have not seen him eat for almost 4 days now, he spends time on his own, and now and again goes to the top of the tank gasping at the top of the water level.

Any help diagnosing what may be wrong would be great, really worried for him.

I currently feed once a day and let them eat for at least 1 - 2 minutes, which a mixture of pellet and flake food.

 

[fluttermoth]

Do you know the hardness of your water? Everything else looks fine water wise, although your temperature might be on the high side; SDs really don't need it that hot.

My immediate concern would be bullying or stress. Your tank is very, very bare, and SDs come from areas that are naturally very overgrown. Four isn't a big enough group; like all tetras, SDs need to be in shoal of at least six.

 

[Saj]

Do you know the hardness of your water? Everything else looks fine water wise, although your temperature might be on the high side; SDs really don't need it that hot.

My immediate concern would be bullying or stress. Your tank is very, very bare, and SDs come from areas that are naturally very overgrown. Four isn't a big enough group; like all tetras, SDs need to be in shoal of at least six.

Hey, thanks for your time. the water is very soft in my area, hence the drop of pH from 7.6 to 6.4, I was planning to raise this with crushed coral, but then read, that a stable pH is more important then a "normal" pH.

I will drop the temperature slightly, it has been at around 78 for past few days, I did the slight adjustment when I did the weekly maintenance on Sunday.

I was planning to add a further 2 silver dollars, to have six, do you think that would have an effect on this one?

I have to agree, it is very bare, and is due to financial constraints, I was hoping over time to stock it with plants and more rocks and places to hide.

He was fine since introducing it to the tank, but last 3-4 days, seems to have gone downhill, with no effect on the others

 

[fluttermoth]

If the issue is bullying, then adding more fish will help, but I can't be 100% positive that is what's going on.

I'd concentrate on getting more cover. Even cheap pond plants would help until you get something better sorted (you don't have any knitters in the family, do you?). You might have to go with artificial plants in the end, as SDs are voracious plant eaters, but of course that's more expensive.

 

[Byron]

Diagnosing fish disease/issues is often an extremely difficult task. All of what fluttermoth mentioned is relevant. This could well be an internal protozoan or some similar pathogen, and/or it could be brought on by stress from the lighting and lack of surface cover and lower decor. This is a skittish/nervous species that comes from very dim waters (thick floating or more often marginal vegetation providing this) and ironically from heavily planted areas. It is a vegetarian so will eat plants.

Floating plants would be a very good idea, even though likely to be eaten in part. This is a good case where duckweed is useful. It is a favourite food of such fish, reproduces rapidly, and once you have some it is not likely you'll run out. The plant is highly nutritious; it gets its common name from the fact that ducks love this food. You can often get some "free" with fish, plants, wood from a store tank, but even if you have to buy some it will be very inexpensive.

Reducing the light is important. Light affects most forest fish more than many hobbyists realize, and lessening it will help. You could find some dead branches if you have a safe collecting site--by safe I mean no chance of pesticides, chemicals, fertilizers, etc. Hardwoods like oak, beech, maple are safe if completely dead; pick them off the ground, not off the tree. The leaves of these trees that have fallen this time of year are also useful. These ideas are inexpensive.

I would lower the temperature to 76-77F. Reliable sites give ranges for temperature, but the idea is to have the fish somewhere mid-range, with the low and high limits indicating temporary temperatures that should cause no problem. Keeping fish warmer than necessary can bee a cause of more stress, and the fish has to work harder just to manage its normal homeostasis.

Here is a link to good info on this species:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/myloplus-rubripinnis/

 

[Saj]

Thanks so much for your support and advice.

As a priority, I will start to fill the tank up with different bits and plants. Then long term, look at adding two further red hooks or even blue hooks.

 

[Saj]

He passed away today, here's some pictures of him, in case anyone notices anything visually wrong with it.

 

[Byron]

Sorry it died. This could have been any number of things from genetic to pathogens to injuries... unless I see obvious signs of a contagious issue, I rarely treat fish. Water changes are often all that is needed, but they won't always cure whatever.

As a priority, I will start to fill the tank up with different bits and plants. Then long term, look at adding two further red hooks or even blue hooks.

You would be better not to mix species with smaller numbers The red hook Myloplus rubripinnis and blue hook Myloplus schomburgkii are distinct species, so the shoal should be five or six (or more) of one species. A similarly sized shoal of the second species can be added in large aquaria; I'm not aware of problems mixing species, provided you have the space, but my knowledge on this genus is not extensive so I add that footnote. A 200 liter (53 gallon) tank will not be sufficient for shoals of both species.

Both species were originally classified in different and individual genera. Jegu (2001) placed M. rubripinnis in Myloplus, and Andrade et al. (2016) moved M. schomburgkii into this genus.

Byron.

 

[Saj]

Sorry it died. This could have been any number of things from genetic to pathogens to injuries... unless I see obvious signs of a contagious issue, I rarely treat fish. Water changes are often all that is needed, but they won't always cure whatever.



You would be better not to mix species with smaller numbers The red hook Myloplus rubripinnis and blue hook Myloplus schomburgkii are distinct species, so the shoal should be five or six (or more) of one species. A similarly sized shoal of the second species can be added in large aquaria; I'm not aware of problems mixing species, provided you have the space, but my knowledge on this genus is not extensive so I add that footnote. A 200 liter (53 gallon) tank will not be sufficient for shoals of both species.

Both species were originally classified in different and individual genera. Jegu (2001) placed M. rubripinnis in Myloplus, and Andrade et al. (2016) moved M. schomburgkii into this genus.

Byron.

Thanks for the information, really appreciate it, will seek some new red hooks, they seem to be a rarity in the UK!