Is this White spot on Green Neon Tetra?

[Deleted member 149562]

Not sure what you are dealing with but in regard to "dabbling" and using the same tools for multiple aquariums.....never a good idea tbh.

I always wear gloves when handling anything in the water cos you never know what might cross contaminate tween you and the fish, water or decor......I really would not dabble in the water unless absolutely necessary such as when carrying out weekly maintenance, dabbling can stress fish and thus exacerbate any health issues they might be harbouring

I also would never use the same tools for multiple aquariums...strict one set of tools for each aquarium. Again it helps to prevent cross contamination if there is anything awry in one of the aquariums. I also used to chuck my tools into the dishwasher without detergent on the hottest wash to sterilise them once a month...maybe too far but with fish, you can never be too careful imho.

Hopefully whatever you are dealing with can be identified and recovered from.

 

[Lynnzer]

Totally agree with the concept and will do all I can to go along with it but I still don't have an answer on what the problem is.
I can't get a decent image to show but pausing the video clip should give an idea at least.
Thinking ahead, and applying as much commonsens as possible to it, as the infection seems to be common to fish in at least 2 tanks it's more than likely to some sort of either fungal infection or bacterial infection. I have taken 2 CPD out of one of the tanks that had them showing some abnormailty too. One has got hunchback and the other seems to gagging for breath. Both of them were easily handpicked from the tank. I also found another one almost rotted away among the taller cluster of plants at the back of the tank. So it looks like whatever has got into the other tanks has taken hold in this one too.
The tank with the Emperor and Glowlight Tetras isn't quite as obvious to the eye. At least 1 Glowlight is a bit funny. It doesn't move about a lot and appears to be slightly swollen on one side. An Emperor has a white spot at the root of the tail but seems OK otherwise.
I was thinking of a general tank-wide treatment such as erythromycin.
All the tanks, including those not apparently infected have had a dose of salt at the rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per litre.

All of the tanks are checked daily for water parameters and corrected each time they need to be but to be honest they are generally OK with little, if any, problems.
So, again and of course without any commitment from anyone as to whether Erythromicyn would be fine, is this a decent idea?

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I know that you mentioned doing a water change yesterday...was that all aquariums or just the one with initially spotted issues?

I have to admit that I absolutely hate using any chemicals or medications in aquariums.....never done it, never will do it...so in relation to the erythromicyn (which seems human orientated as a medication, not fish), I have no idea as to its effectiveness, especially when the root of the problem is unidentified.....you could end up doing more harm than good - if that makes sense

My first step would be to do daily water changes for at least a week or so of 70% minimum, give the substrate a really good going over (afterall it can trap toxicity in the lower regions that can be fatal to fish or cause them to be very unwell) and maybe even comb through plants and decor to make absolutely sure there is nothing untoward lurking in the aquariums.

I don't have and have never had any experience of disease or illness in my aquariums so it is really hard to judge what to do for the best apart from upping the maintenance massively and trying the salt as Colin suggested. Using any medication when the cause is not 100% understood will always be a huge risk imho.

I wish you well in this, it has to be soul destroying to have to deal with this sort of thing, good luck with whatever you decide to try and I hope things recover soon for you and the fish.

 

[Essjay]

I was thinking of a general tank-wide treatment such as erythromycin.

Just curious - where would you get the erythromycin? We need a vet's prescription and I understand it's illegal to import antibiotics.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Just curious - where would you get the erythromycin? We need a vet's prescription and I understand it's illegal to import antibiotics.

Yep...

It is by prescription only from a vet....unless you want to be really stupid and tell your GP that you have an infection and are allergic to penicillin, but even then it is still prescription only

If you try to buy it from a foreign supplier it is very likely to be stopped at customs either in the originating country (no export allowed) or in the UK (no importation allowed unless by a licenced vet)

That is an awful lot of faffing about for something that might not even work due to the actual cause of the health issue has not been 100% diagnosed.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I don't know where you are going to source your erythromycin but if you decide to use the human treatment variety, how are you going to manage the dosage correctly without doing a potentially huge amount of harm to the fish?

This is the recommended dosage for humans from a GP's prescription
Erythromycin Base (Base) or Erythromycin Stearate (Stearate):
Mild to moderate infections: 250 mg orally every 6 hours, 333 mg orally every 8 hours, OR 500 mg orally every 12 hours
Severe infections: 1 gram orally every 6 hours
-Maximum dose: 4 grams/day

Erythromycin Ethylsuccinate (Ethylsuccinate): 400 mg orally every 6 hours
-Maximum dose: Up to 4 grams/day

How are you going to interpret that into a suitable and safe treatment for an aquarium?

I totally understand that you are frustrated and a little desperate to get this sorted out for your fish, but at the same time I really have trouble understanding the use of human medications for any animal, let alone fish, without a qualified vet's guidance.

It scares me to death that you would even consider doing this.

 

[Byron]

I will not guess as to the "disease" problem(s), buty I have seen them over the years. I have never treated for whatever it is, since I didn't know what it was. The fish with the issue died, but it was not contagious, and that is all I ever really worried about.

It would help to have the test result numbers, since "OK" can mean something very different to some. Water parameters include GH, pH and temperature; ammonia, nit5rite and nitrate are water conditions, not parameters. Any of these will help. GH and pH and temperature, the parameters, are especially important with the green neon; thi fish comes from very soft and acidic water that is very warm compared to other tropical fish habitats. And very still...the fish in both videos are fighting currents, and that is not good, it weakens them over time making them less able to deal with issues. They need still water; a sponge filter which has very little current resulting is best.

 

[Lynnzer]

Yeah, Erythromycin jumped out of a Google search. Typical US website stuff.
I couldn't reply yesterday as an another more immediate event took place when my wife had a nasty fall and was in sever pain. So I spent the rest of the day tripping between hospitals for scans and x-rays. No broken bones fortunately but she's still in pain that the medical people say will be bruising more than anything.

Today I visited my LFS where I have a good relationship with them (her-actually - Claire). She says from other photo's I took show erosion of moth parts that she puts down to a fungal infection.
I have Myxazin to treat it. No copper so the shrimp and snail will be OK. I was advised to take any activated carbon out of the filter but what I need to know now is do I also switch off the UV light in the filter too. I'm guessing yes so have done so already, but if not I'd prefer it to be on so any other bacteria could be prevented from increasing.

 

[itiwhetu]

What is the condition your fish has? What are you Myxazin for?

 

[Lynnzer]

Fungal growth around the mouth is really evident for a start, that's aside from the other white growth on the body.
The water parameters, to answer that question, are checked daily on the tanks in question. The pH and hardness levels are set to different levels for each tank to suit the fish in it, by a mix of dechlorinated tapwater, bottled water and rainwater as needed to reach the required level.
The ammonia is at zero, except in one tank that I had to keep an eye on for a while and water change as needed, then both the nitrite and nitrate levels are nil or so low that they don't pink enough to reach the 0.25 or 25 levels on the scales.
Having doen the water change yesterday and addition of salt I find that the GH has risen really high. I don't like it. I'm water changing back again. If salt was the only way to prevent a spread of the bacteria then I'm making the fish suffer as a result and I ain't happy to do that. In fact I lost a crystal red shrimp overnight in one tank.

 

[Lynnzer]

I've now completed day 5 of the Myxazine treatment and things seem to have settled. No further apparent sick fish and those that were just looking poorly although showing no external signs, have perked up.
Having done the 5 day course, I would like to know what is best from hereon.
Do I now do water changes immediately or just leave it for now and do partial changes later.
Oh, and is it best to leave the UV off for now as it may kill off whatever antibiotic or other biological entity was in the Myxazine that may still be working until it's changed out in a water change.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

If you are using a rainwater mix, are you absolutely 100% certain that it is completely free of all impurities?

Just seems sort of weird that no sooner had you started using the rainwater contraption that the fish started ailing.

Coincidence....you need to make absolutely sure for your own peace of mind if nothing else....if the rainwater hits wood soffit, what sort of roof it is, what is it made of, what treatments the roof parts have had before the wood and other materials were sold.....even seagull poo has enough toxins to remove the paint off things.....are you totally sure that the issues with the fish are not a direct or indirect result of a toxin introduced by the rainwater?

 

[Lynnzer]

It's a thought.
Of course no-one can be certain when an uncontrolled substance is added to a tank, However, the precautions are pretty good. The inline filter in the downpipe is much the same construction as external canister filters, ie sponge, floss, very fine mesh gauze to stop anything larger than a pinprick, and topped off with a bag of activated charcoal.
That said, I think that the tank with the neon tetra hasn't had rainwater in it. I have used Asda or Tesco bottled water to dilute the tapwater for this tank. Even so, the fact that the problem is in more than 1 tank relates to a potential cross infection using the same tools, nets etc between them all. Though still not in the neon tank which has largely been undisturbed.
As it stands, the infection seems to have been calmed as no further fish have been affected and those that were, are now showing improvement in their health.
The other fish such as dwarf rasboras, chili rasboras, green neon tetra, cpd's and other small fish would surely have had some sign of infection if it was a general problem on a tank-wide basis. Water parameters are checked every day, sometimes twice a day and are all as good as they could be. A water borne disease may not have the reach to get to every fish, whereas a problem with a widespread water borne disease would.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I understand your desire to use rainwater.

However the UK's rain is tainted compared to rainwater that @itiwhetu uses by virtue of our industry, use of pesticides, insectisides, wood treatments...even that seagull eating at a landfill....

@itiwhetu is incredibly fortunate that NZ doesn't have the population that the UK has, doesn't have the heavy industry so concentrated that the UK has, they have tighter legislation about the use of pesticides and insectisides and building material treatments and so forth.

Even the water from the UK tap is not as ideal as it once was......this outbreak of whatever it was might well be almost over....but can you, hand on heart, be comfortable using rainwater with so many potential issues....issues that the average water test kit is never going to pick up on anyway?

 

[Lynnzer]

Simple answer: No.
However, there's always a However isn't there, I think I live in a relatively rural suburb compared to most cities and large towns. Most of the rain that falls here, in my home town has come directly in from the east which is the northeast coast about a mile and a half away, or has come across from the west, ie Cumbria that doesn't have much in the way of heavy industry. The clouds in both cases probably form way out in the north sea or the land on the other side which is mainly Sweden and Germany or in the Atlantic before coming over Ireland and Cumbria.
At the risk of losing another fish or two I think I'll stick with it for now. I'm still thinking about a UV light in the water barrel or the drainpipe. The water going down the drainpipe is probably moving too fast to benefit though so one in the barrel would be better.
That would sort out bacterial impurities at least.