Is Stuff Like This Actually Fake And Dont Work?

[vinylman]

PFK tested SafeStart when it was introduced to the market and found that while you could put in fish from the start, they were still subjected to high Nitrites.

 

[mark7616]

safestart isnt very good soll bactinetts is brilliant unless you have tried it you cant really say you can stock an aquarium from scratch with them.

 

[andywg]

yes there are two products that work
the best (and only refrigerated) product is Bactinettes made by Soll.

the second best is tetra safstart and is a live bacteria kept suspended in a 'special' gel. this don't need refrigeration
but needs to be kept below a certain temp (25C I think) .

it should be noted that bactinettes is the actual nitrosomas and nitrabacter bacterias but safe start is not.
tetra believe it is actually a similar species of bacterium that do the breaking down of ammonia and nitrIte.

Are you sure it has Nitrobacter spp? This bacteria does not feature in the oxidisation of nitrite in aquatic environments (but does in terrestrial settings).

All bacteria starter cultures used to contain Nitrosomonas spp and Nitrobacter spp but they were found not to be as effective as expected and desired. Research was undertaken (with a fair amount by Dr Hovanic) into which strains of bacteria are present in mature and cycled aquaria.

The research showed that Nitrobacter spp was either not present, or present in extremely small amounts. The bacteria that performs the nitrite oxidisation was found to be Nitrospira spp. This is where Bio-Spira gets its name.

I have tried to find out exactly which bacteria are in Soll's Bactinettes. It doesn't say anywhere on its site. If it does contain Nitrospira spp then it should work fantastically, just like Bio-Spira. If it contains Nitrobacter then it should help prevent an ammonia spike, but I would expect a nitrite spike as the Nitrospira spp have to grow in numbers.

I have two other problems with Bactinettes. First up, their reps reckon it can work in both FW and SW. Unless it contains both bacteria in different capsules (meaning you only get 50% efficiency) then I don't see how it can work.

Finally, the website claims it can do away with nitrates. You generally need anoxic conditions to culture the bacteria which can deal with nitrate.

I would like to see a little bit more information on Bactinettes before giving it a full recommendation.

 

[linda1503]

My father-in-law has just used some stuff I think it is bactinettes from our local Maidenhead Aquatics. He put a few fish in the following day and now 2 weeks later hes got loads more fish and all his test are fine, and hes had no deaths. Its in its own special fridge on the counter but not sure how much he paid for it but it seems to have worked fine. I asked about this a while ago and I think its was wolf who gave me the low-down on it.

 

[OohFeeshy]

First up, their reps reckon it can work in both FW and SW.

I've just done a quick Google and I can't find any information that that is actually the case. The website doesn't mention it can be used for SW too (something I'm sure they'd be keen to advertise) and I don't think the actual dispenser mentions SW either. Maybe it's a case of over-enthusiastic reps not quite telling the truth?

 

[Southyorkshirefishkeeper]

I've just been on the phone to my lfs and they sell refrigarated live bacteria for £5.50 that treats upto 100 litres.

He didn't say what it was called but this should speed up my cycle and allow me to add some more fish.

 

[The-Wolf]

I remember a conversation with the Soll rep and he said that soll had purchased the rights from the makers of bio-spira in the USA.
they have slightly altered the way the bacteria are fed and therefore the product looks different to bio-spira but is essentially the same.

there is a member her that sell bactinettes in the shop he works at (can't remember who), perhaps he can get the technical details form the rep.

it does work on both FW and SW, I have seen the results myself, however the SW usage is different than for FW, I don't remember exactly how.

 

[mark7616]

I spent about 40 mins on the phone to the rep he is a french guy the name has gone from my head right now but when I first dosed with the bactinetts I got a nitrite spike that I could not get rid of and was doing daily water changes. After speaking with him and spending the whole time slagging off his product to him he gave me another 6 free pots as I purchsed 6 already to cycle the tank first time round. From then on no problem so I dunno if something happend in transit and my bacteria got to warm or not but I know the 2nd time it worked and have also done 3 other tanks on it since and give it a as for saltwater the rep never mentioned it to me on the phone and I did tell him I had a marine tank but what he did tell me to do was once I had all the bacteria in the filter to put some more under the substrate to help fight nitrates but I couldnt be arsed as water changing doesnt cost as much and gets rid of nitrate.

 

[andywg]

The problem with bactinettes is that they contain the wrong nitrite oxidising bacteria (NOB).

Bactinettes contains the Nitrobacter spp which are the NOB in terrestrial environments. In aquariua that are cycled and mature there is either very little, or no, Nitrobacter spp. The NOB in aquaria are Nitrospira spp.

Even Wolf, who in chat was telling me how wonderful bactinettes are, admitted he too saw a nitrite spike when using bactinettes, the leaflets I picked up on bactinettes even show a (somewhat small) spike in nitrite. This is because they have the wrong bacteria. Since 1998 research has been undertaken into the actual bacteria present in our tanks.

Ny all means use bactinettes to bypass the ammonia spike phase of cycling, but I would not recommend it for immediate stocking as one can with bio-spira.

I've just done a quick Google and I can't find any information that that is actually the case. The website doesn't mention it can be used for SW too (something I'm sure they'd be keen to advertise) and I don't think the actual dispenser mentions SW either. Maybe it's a case of over-enthusiastic reps not quite telling the truth?

I picked up a leaflet from in front of the machine at a lfs on saturday. It claims bactinettes can be used in FW and SW.

I am still unsure of how it is meant to work in saltwater and freshwater when FW bacteria die off once the SG goes above 1.005. The only way I can think is if it contains two strains, which would mean you are only paying for half the product you want.

 

[OohFeeshy]

I picked up a leaflet from in front of the machine at a lfs on saturday. It claims bactinettes can be used in FW and SW.

Fairy snuff, just a bit odd that nowhere else seems to mention it. Does it use the right SW bacteria or is it the same story? Perhaps you could drop them an email, after all, people deserve to know that they're being ripped off.

 

[andywg]

Fairy snuff, just a bit odd that nowhere else seems to mention it. Does it use the right SW bacteria or is it the same story? Perhaps you could drop them an email, after all, people deserve to know that they're being ripped off.

But are they being ripped off?

The company doesn't claim to instantly cycle, and it even shows a(somewhat small) nitrite spike in its charts.

I have never done a lot of looking into SW aquaria bacteria. According to the Microbewiki:

Nitrosococcus is a small genus of marine, ammonia-oxidizing bacteria. They are primarily found in brackish water environments, but recently strains were isolated in wastewater. A species of this bacteria were first isolated in 1965 and was called Nitrosocystis oceanus, which later changed to Nitrosococcus oceani, the name by which it is now known.

...

Nitrosococcus has been isolated in oceans and other aquatic environments worldwide and plays an important role in the aquatic nitrogen cycle. By oxidizing ammonia, they convert organic waste to cardon dioxide and water.

It also appears that Nitrococcus spp are the NOB in SW, though I have to read a bit more to find out for sure.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

no i don't see how any bacteria in there can stay alive through hot unrefrigerated transportation and then sit on the shelf for a month. unless the bacteria grows when it hits the water then HOW can it work

 

[mark7616]

no i don't see how any bacteria in there can stay alive through hot unrefrigerated transportation and then sit on the shelf for a month. unless the bacteria grows when it hits the water then HOW can it work

Did you bother to read the thread or just pipe up at the end???

 

[OohFeeshy]

But are they being ripped off?

I meant more from a 'if it works for FW and SW then you're paying full price for half a product' type thing.