Is my upside down catfish sick?

[FoxFish01]

Hi there, hope all is well in the fishy world. I'm new here. Needed advice regarding one of my catfish. Does he look unwell? He lost his colour 3 months ago when I transferred him from my late mother's house to mine. All other fish have been fine only this one lost his colour and looks sickly. The tank holds 220Litres, I've done periodically cleans either weekly or fortnightly. PH8.2 been trying to reduce using Ph down as per instructions. Tap safe for water changes. I've tried to treat him with Kordans ick attack in a small make shift fish hospital but nothing changed. He'll be roughly 10years or older now and lifespan says 10yrs. Any advice would be appreciated
Thank you

 

[outofwater]

Hi, doesn't look like ick to me, although I'm not sure if those small white dots on the body prompted you to treat it as such. Do you know if it had those dots before? Other than that, is it eating normally, showing any other signs ? Have you tested the water parameters? His old age might make him more prone to showing signs of stress or disease sooner than other fish in the tank.

 

[FoxFish01]

Hi, doesn't look like ick to me, although I'm not sure if those small white dots on the body prompted you to treat it as such. Do you know if it had those dots before? Other than that, is it eating normally, showing any other signs ? Have you tested the water parameters? His old age might make him more prone to showing signs of stress or disease sooner than other fish in the tank.

Hi there, apart from the pH level I don't know what the parameters are. His behaviour is acting strangely or different of late but still active when playing with the other catfish. His colour seems to have darkened a little since turning a pale ghostly shade. I wasn't sure if it's caused by stress, age or disease. I noticed the dots looked like a pattern from 2 months ago but there's extra dots that aren't uniform so really not sure. When first placed in the tank he and the rainbow shark would torment and wind each other up a lot and bullying over territory. Honestly it's like watching kids bicker and torment one another. Then the catfish went into hiding under bark or hang around the heater or would be under a bridge ornament that is a battle ground between him and the shark. Now he's left those spaces and quite new just levitating in a corner and very docile. I watch him every day just hoping he's okay, but yes maybe old now

 

[Byron]

You mention "other catfish," do you have a small group of this species, or is this fish the only one?

Do you have chunks of wood, caves, or similar so he can get inside and be "upside down?" I can't tell from the two photos what the decor in this tank is like.

Age is certainly a consideration, or stress (answers to above will help sort this out). There are a couple other points to keep in mind however, that generally apply to most all fish. First is, do not use pH down or any adjusting solutions with fish present. A stable pH is much less problematic for fish than one fluctuating up and down. The pH is connected to the GH and KH, and these buffer it to prevent fluctuations. London has hard water, so you are never going to get the pH down permanently without reducing the GH/KH, and that is another complex issue.

Second point, never use medications unless you are fairly certain of the issue (disease), and the intended medication is the most effective and safest. Substances added to the tank water will get into the fish and this causes additional stress at the very least. Diagnosing fish ailments is often extremely difficult. For example, if this were ich [I am not suggesting for one moment that it is, I don't know] the safest treatment would be to raise the water temperature to 30C/86F for two weeks. This can easily be tolerated by most of the fish we keep in tanks, and it is significantly less stressful than using any so-called medication.

 

[FoxFish01]

You mention "other catfish," do you have a small group of this species, or is this fish the only one?

Do you have chunks of wood, caves, or similar so he can get inside and be "upside down?" I can't tell from the two photos what the decor in this tank is like.

Age is certainly a consideration, or stress (answers to above will help sort this out). There are a couple other points to keep in mind however, that generally apply to most all fish. First is, do not use pH down or any adjusting solutions with fish present. A stable pH is much less problematic for fish than one fluctuating up and down. The pH is connected to the GH and KH, and these buffer it to prevent fluctuations. London has hard water, so you are never going to get the pH down permanently without reducing the GH/KH, and that is another complex issue.

Second point, never use medications unless you are fairly certain of the issue (disease), and the intended medication is the most effective and safest. Substances added to the tank water will get into the fish and this causes additional stress at the very least. Diagnosing fish ailments is often extremely difficult. For example, if this were ich [I am not suggesting for one moment that it is, I don't know] the safest treatment would be to raise the water temperature to 30C/86F for two weeks. This can easily be tolerated by most of the fish we keep in tanks, and it is significantly less stressful than using any so-called medication.

Thank you that's most helpful. There is a second upside down catfish. The pair have always been together. There are 2 pieces of bark in the tank that form caves where they sometimes hide and a few ornaments the favourite one being the bridge which they rest on the underneath. I don't know what KH/GH are.
Picture of catfish bestie, the bark cave, ornaments and the bridge.

 

[Byron]

GH is general or total hardness; this is the level of dissolved "hard" minerals, primarily calcium and magnesium. The KH is carbonate hardness, also called Alkalinity. The two are related, and from other threads, both are high in London. Which means as I said previously, the pH is not going to lower, unless you add so much acid it crashes. Best to leave it alone.

Age may be the issue here, though now I see a Tiger Barb...how many of this barb are there? It can get nippy, and a catfish like the upside down could be a target.

 

[FoxFish01]

GH is general or total hardness; this is the level of dissolved "hard" minerals, primarily calcium and magnesium. The KH is carbonate hardness, also called Alkalinity. The two are related, and from other threads, both are high in London. Which means as I said previously, the pH is not going to lower, unless you add so much acid it crashes. Best to leave it alone.

Age may be the issue here, though now I see a Tiger Barb...how many of this barb are there? It can get nippy, and a catfish like the upside down could be a target.

I recently bought 2 tiger barbs. I have never seen them trouble the catfish. They have only nipped at 2 platys rears which I believed were pregnant. I separated them for a week into fish detention (a small separate spare tank) to lesson the stress on the platys but either no fry came or they got eaten.
The shark is the only one who troubles the catfish but they have been together forever. They push each other from their places and scuffle for the underbridge territory. They are more active at night when the lights go off.

 

[outofwater]

How old is the rainbow shark? I'm no expert but early on I had to quickly pick up what fish can live "together" even if the tank is big enough in the paper. And territorial fish, as the rainbow shark certainly is; only gets more entrenched as a behavior as the fish mature. Ick might be a byproduct of stress, and as mentioned before age also is a factor. Adding meds without 100% certainty also can add stress, buy we all know we're trying to do good by our pets.

Only other point that comes to mind would be to remove the rainbow shark for a while (assuming you have another tank where he can go to for a while) and rearrange/add decorations where the catfish can hang out, then reintroduce the shark and see if he will establish a new territory and scale down or stop the tangling with the older guy.

 

[Byron]

I recently bought 2 tiger barbs. I have never seen them trouble the catfish. They have only nipped at 2 platys rears which I believed were pregnant. I separated them for a week into fish detention (a small separate spare tank) to lesson the stress on the platys but either no fry came or they got eaten.
The shark is the only one who troubles the catfish but they have been together forever. They push each other from their places and scuffle for the underbridge territory. They are more active at night when the lights go off.

You are not going to want to hear this, but...Tiger Barb is an aggressive fish. Aggression can be lessened by having no fewer than 12 of them, in their own 30g tank, or with other fish (carefully chosen) in larger tanks. This is again programmed into the genetics of the species. You have the tank space, so I would immediately acquire another 10 TB, or alternatively (your call) return the two. I don't know what other fish there are now, or what may be planned, but TB do limit options. Sedate fish (gourami, cichlids) and fish with long fins are not suited tankmates.

 

[FoxFish01]

I recently bought 2 tiger barbs. I have never seen them trouble the catfish. They have only nipped at 2 platys rears which I believed were pregnant. I separated them for a week into fish detention (a small separate spare tank) to lesson the stress on the platys but either no fry came or they got eaten.
The shark is the only one who troubles the catfish but they have been together forever. They push each other from their places and scuffle for the underbridge territory. They are more active at night when the lights go off.

Hi, I turned up the temp ever so slightly and he's definitely looking darker and healthier, also he's chose this corner as his new spot. Hoping he's got many more years ahead of him. Thank you

 

[itiwhetu]

These are acid loving fish and need to be in an acid tank, he will not get better in a tank with a pH of eight plus

 

[itiwhetu]

You are not going to want to hear this, but...Tiger Barb is an aggressive fish. Aggression can be lessened by having no fewer than 12 of them, in their own 30g tank, or with other fish (carefully chosen) in larger tanks. This is again programmed into the genetics of the species. You have the tank space, so I would immediately acquire another 10 TB, or alternatively (your call) return the two. I don't know what other fish there are now, or what may be planned, but TB do limit options. Sedate fish (gourami, cichlids) and fish with long fins are not suited tankmates.

So, you are seriously suggesting that this fish looks like that and it has nothing to do with the fact that there is an acid loving fish living in a tank with a pH of 8.2.

You really need to re-read your signature quotes

 

[Byron]

So, you are seriously suggesting that this fish looks like that and it has nothing to do with the fact that there is an acid loving fish living in a tank with a pH of 8.2.

You really need to re-read your signature quotes

Your post bears no connection to my post that you quote in it, so I've no idea what you're on about.

 

[itiwhetu]

Your post bears no connection to my post that you quote in it, so I've no idea what you're on about.

You have several posts on this thread, I just tagged the last one. As usual you are stating that pH is not a problem. I believe pH is the biggest concern with this fish.

 

[FoxFish01]

You are not going to want to hear this, but...Tiger Barb is an aggressive fish. Aggression can be lessened by having no fewer than 12 of them, in their own 30g tank, or with other fish (carefully chosen) in larger tanks. This is again programmed into the genetics of the species. You have the tank space, so I would immediately acquire another 10 TB, or alternatively (your call) return the two. I don't know what other fish there are now, or what may be planned, but TB do limit options. Sedate fish (gourami, cichlids) and fish with long fins are not suited tankmates.

Update on the tiger barbs, I've removed them from the big tank and the two of them are in a small 13 litre tank. How many would you suggest is reasonable in such a small tank as it looks quite empty and lonely, maybe I can add a few more? Or maybe a different compatible fish species?
The catfish in the large tank appear to be coping well