Is My Planted 10G Too Full?

[mahdira]

EDIT: This might be a moot point fairly soon, as the two C. acutirostre have suddenly started swimming erratically (racing up and down the side of the tank, very out of the ordinary for this species) and folding themselves into "U" shapes. I fear that they will not be around much longer. I'm surprised, because they've been completely fine for the past three weeks, and then, right around when I was making this post, they starting acting strangely. Incredibly ironic and very sad. Maybe the water from the new fish had something weird in it, but it was from the same store that I got the C. acutirostre from, so...I don't know. I guess it might end up being a terrible lesson about the importance of quarantine practices, although I don't know how you're supposed to quarantine when you've only got one tank. Anyway...um...now I just feel terrible. Thanks anyway.


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I have a 10-gallon (37.8 liters?) tank! It's been going for about three weeks now. It's planted with 5 bunches of water wisteria, 3 red ludwigia, 2 mondo grass bunches, 2 moss balls, and an anacharis, with a big piece of hollow "driftwood" ornament (not sure what it's made of, but it's not wood, lol). In there I have two "spotted African leaf fish" (Ctenopoma acutirostre, one ~1" and one ~3"), one otocinclus (~2"), one tiny pepper cory catfish (~2"), and 5 "mystery snails." I just added the oto, cory, and 4 of the snails today. It's lit with one "Power Glo" flourescent, but I was worried that it wasn't enough light, so I have another compact florescent coming in off the side for extra light. Perhaps that is what caused the ~*explosion*~ of string algae and this brownish algae ;; I'm using an Aquaclear 20 filter (the kind with the three separate media).

I've been feeding the leaf fish frozen bloodworm cubes, 2 per day, and the one snail that I had in there doubled in size over the past few weeks (I assume he's been eating the leftover bloodworms). I added the additional snails because I really like snails, and I added the cory to eat the dead leaves and the oto to control a little bit of the algae. But is this tank too overloaded? I think I went overboard at the store today with all the snails and the cory and the oto, but there's so many plants in there and I feel like there ought to be enough algae/dead leaves/general detritus that everyone can live happily. Should I supplement with extra vegetables too?

For the record, I plan to transfer this tank setup to a ~29 gallon when the fish are a bit bigger and the plants have grown out. I also plan to add more cories--I just learned that they are shoaling fish...shame on me for an impulse purchase Mostly I just want to know if it's too crazy overloaded right now and whether I should feel terribly guilty D: This is my first big(ish) tank that I've had in a while and I was totally clueless for my other one, so I don't count that one! All my previous tanks have been less than 5 gallons and have been bettas (who have all lived 3 or more years), so I thought I would try a bigger tank, as I absolutely love aquariums, but I think I might have gotten carried away D:

TL;DR -- Is my tank too overloaded? If yes, what should I do to make it as comfortable as possible until I can set up a new, bigger tank?

Thanks a lot for your help! I look forward to becoming more experienced, so that I too can one day help noobs like myself become successful aquarists

PS: Is anyone going to MACNA 2010? http/www.macna2010.com I live in Orlando so I feel obligated to go, even though I just think reefs are amazing and I don't actually have one. I think it's going to be awesome!

 

[Verminator89]

You do realise that these fish (Ctenopoma acutirostre) can grow to about between 6-8 inches in length in captivity. They arent advisable to keep two together because as they get older they have a tendancy to tollerate the same species as them less and less. They say not to keep it with small fish that will fit in its mouth because in the wild they are predatory fish so guppys/ottos and other small fish are concidered food, having said that its not advisable to keep it with larger cichlids because it then becomes the opposite, a shy cowering fish that is often out competed for food. Its generally best kept in a tank dedicated to it with peacefull larger tankmates such as the bigger tetras. Having two of these in a tank this small is quite irresponsible, you should think about getting a bigger tank and rehoming one for the future.

Certainly seems like you've acted on impulse, which were all guilty of from time to time. I've jsut done some a bit of reading up on this fish and they recommend minimum tank size of 30 gallon for one Leopard Bush Fish (Ctenopoma acutirostre) with seletive tankmates, not overstocking and making sure you have good filtration. It suggest you follow this advise and start correcting your situation where it does seem like you've gone a little off track.

When kept in good conditions and catered for properly this is a stunning fish. Hope this helps.

James

 

[mahdira]

Thank you for your reply! I had done research on them before getting them, but I thought it would be okay to keep them in the smaller tank temporarily and then move them into a larger tank. I guess I was wrong! I definitely shouldn't have gotten two, though, that's for sure.

The cory was an impulse buy, unfortunately, which I feel very bad about. I would take him back, but the store would euthanize him (as all fish stores around here do with returned fish). I definitely plan to get him several friends, as soon as I can get a larger tank, which will clearly need to be sooner rather than later.

I have updated my original post with a sad update--right as I was making the original post, both of the Ctenopoma acutirostre began exhibiting strange behavior and don't look well. I'm not sure what the cause of it is, but I have a very sad feeling that I will not be needing to worry too much about this issue before too long. If they do make a recovery, I will be thrilled, and I now plan to rehome the larger fish and move the smaller one into a larger tank (at least 29 gallons--29 and 37 are the two sizes closest to 30 that are readily available here). It's surprising how quickly fish can deteriorate from "seemingly fine" to "definitely ill."

After I transfer the remaining fish to the larger tank, maybe I can use the 10 gallon as a dedicated snail and plant tank. That might be fun, and a more appropriate use of the tank size. Just have a little snail army going in there

 

[Verminator89]

You mentioned quarentining being hard with only one tank, well you have another tank as a quarentine there if you need it?

Sorry to hear about the fish. Perhaps add an air stone to the tank to increase the O2 in the water, also doing 10% daily water changes keeps the water fresh. All is not lost, you'd be surprised what fish can recover from! If you can use dechlorinated water to, ever little helps on the road to recovery!

 

[Curiosity101]

It's been going for about three weeks now.

A 10gal with that amount of bioload in it going for 3 weeks is going to have had HUGE ammonia levels and will only be part way through cycling (if it's even properly started yet).

First things first get your water tested. Do this either by buying you're own kit...such as API Freshwater master test kit or any other liquid based kit that does ammonia and nitrite tests. Or get your local shop to test it and ask for the ppm results. Not just for them to say 'oh it's good' or 'oh it's bad'.

If you can't get the water tested ASAP then start by doing an 80% water change followed by 50% daily until you can get it tested.

 

[mahdira]

A 10gal with that amount of bioload in it going for 3 weeks is going to have had HUGE ammonia levels and will only be part way through cycling (if it's even properly started yet).

First things first get your water tested. Do this either by buying you're own kit...such as API Freshwater master test kit or any other liquid based kit that does ammonia and nitrite tests. Or get your local shop to test it and ask for the ppm results. Not just for them to say 'oh it's good' or 'oh it's bad'.

If you can't get the water tested ASAP then start by doing an 80% water change followed by 50% daily until you can get it tested.

As of right now, my ammonia levels are at 0.25 ppm. I think this has to do with the fact that it's heavily planted and I'm running a 20G filter on a 10G tank, but I could be wrong. According to my API kit, all other levels are normal as well D: Should I still do a large water change?

When I first set up the tank, I had it empty with gravel and the filter going. I added this product here: http/www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=3582 and let it run for a day. Then I added several plants and let it run for a week. When the plants didn't die, I added more plants, checked the water levels using the API liquid kit, and then added the first two fish and snail several days after that. It's been running three weeks without any problems, and the problems have just started tonight with the addition of the cory/oto/more snails. I hope this clarifies the situation. Any further help that you can give would be greatly appreciated

Also, thanks for the encouragement, Verminator89

 

[Curiosity101]

Hmm, well then it could well be that as you got the plants established (ie. adapted to your water conditions) before you introduced fish that they are 'mopping up' the ammonia so to speak. If the ammonia is 0.25 and nitrites are 0 then you don't need to do a water change

But I'd keep a very close eye on the stats until the ammonia drops, and definitely keep checking nitrites to make sure they don't spike.

I'm very skeptical of the 'bottled bacteria' as we have found a significant amount of people have had no change with it...

Oh and just out of interest, are you sure it is a Polycentropsis abbreviata and not a Ctenopoma acutirostre? What have you been feeding them? And do you have any pictures?
I'm not saying they aren't african leaf fish, I'm actually just interested.

 

[mahdira]

Hmm, well then it could well be that as you got the plants established (ie. adapted to your water conditions) before you introduced fish that they are 'mopping up' the ammonia so to speak. If the ammonia is 0.25 and nitrites are 0 then you don't need to do a water change

But I'd keep a very close eye on the stats until the ammonia drops, and definitely keep checking nitrites to make sure they don't spike.

I'm very skeptical of the 'bottled bacteria' as we have found a significant amount of people have had no change with it...

Oh and just out of interest, are you sure it is a Polycentropsis abbreviata and not a Ctenopoma acutirostre? What have you been feeding them? And do you have any pictures?
I'm not saying they aren't african leaf fish, I'm actually just interested.

They are definitely Ctenopoma acutirostre. The store had them labeled as "spotted African leaf fish," but different people seem to have different common names for them (spotted climbing perch, leopard bush fish, etc.), so I just went with what the store called them, lol I've been feeding them bloodworms, as I know they can be picky about flakes/pellets, and I have no problem dropping a couple defrosted cubes of worms in there each day. What they don't eat, the snails pick up I don't have any pictures, but they look exactly like this: http/www.freewebs.com/fruitbat/cacutirostre15.jpg They are awesome fish and are super-cute, and I feel very badly that mine are ill

I will definitely keep an eye on the levels. Thanks a lot for the advice!

 

[Curiosity101]

Ah right... well they're not african leaf fish then. African leaf fish are... Polycentropsis abbreviata. My guess is that your lfs genuinely thought they were african leaf fish but were just well....wrong. lol.

I did think it was more likely you had Ctenopoma acutirostre, whos most widely used common name is 'Spotted climbing perch' not that it matters that much though.

Anyhoo, you're looking at more like 50gal for these as they get bigger, especially if you're keeping them together. 10g certainly isn't going to suitable for too long. And you seem clued up on them so don't know if you already know this, but beware of keeping them with smaller fish like neons... even well fed fish have been known to eat things like neons.

 

[mahdira]

Anyhoo, you're looking at more like 50gal for these as they get bigger if you're keeping them together. 10g certainly isn't going to suitable for too long. And you seem clued up on them so don't know if you already know this, but beware of keeping them with smaller fish like neons... even well fed fish have been known to eat things like neons.

I'd love to have a 50 gallon but I'd cry if the only fish I could keep were two C. acutirostre who didn't even like each other, lol. What would you recommend putting in a 50G with two C. acutirostre? I know their tankmates can't be aggressive, but also can't be too small (mmmmm delicious neons!). Kind of an awkward inbetween if you ask me. Any recommendations for tankmates would be great!

 

[Curiosity101]

Having not kept them and not spoken to too many people who have. But based on what I have read... stick to something large bodied that can hold it's own.

I'd imagine serpae tetras would do well with them, and that quite a few of the various barbs would probably be ok (perhaps steer clear of tigers though)
I can't see them giving bottom dwellers a second glance... but even so stick to things that don't look like food, so I'd imagine kuhli loach are out of the window but the larger bodied loaches and larger corydoras aswell as some of the plecs should be ok.

As would some of the dwarf-medium sized cichlids.