Is My Mollie Sick?

[Bill F]

Hi i have a mollie fish that was very active, couple days ago i added a molly and a rainbow dwarf fish, we have a total of 7 in a 25 gallon tank, yesterday i did a water change because the fish store said are amounia was high, I also cleaned the tank and vacumed gravel per fish store, this tank has been up for 5 weeks and has had fish in it for 4 weeks, now the mollie just sits at the bottom looking up, no physical signs of sickness or anything, still eating but about 25 percent as active as before

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to our forum Bill F.
I am afraid that you have fallen into a trap that many new fish keepers fall into. You have had fish in a tank almost since it was first set up. That means that you have yet to develop any biological filtration to speak of. All fish produce ammonia mainly from their gills but also as a component of their liquid wastes and from the decay of their solid wastes. Ammonia is toxic in concentrations as low as 0.25 ppm. A functional biological filter can remove the ammonia by converting it into nitrites and further converting the nitrites into nitrates. Nitrates are fairly safe for your fish but ammonia and nitrites are toxic at very low levels.
If your local fish shop is admitting that you have high ammonia levels, they are sky high. A fish shop will often minimize the negative impact of ammonia and will never tell you its source because neither piece of information is in their best interests. No new fish until you get the filter in your tank cycled, meaning until the ammonia and nitrites stay at zero without the need for a water change. If you are going to continue to keep fish in a new tank without a functional biological filter you need to get a liquid type test kit, not rely on the fish shop. What you will do then is change so much water, every day if it is needed, to keep the ammonia and nitrites both at less than 0.25 ppm at all times. With no numbers to go by, I would advise a 90% or larger water change today, with proper use of dechlorinator, and get that test kit ASAP.
Whatever you do, don't toss any part of your filter . A typical filter manufacturer will tell you to toss some part every 3 or 4 weeks but that is completely wrong. The biological filter that you are trying to establish ends up as a colony living in the filter media. If you toss it, you and your fish get to start all over. If a filter needs to be cleaned, take some of that water you are removing every day and use it to rinse out the filter media then put the media right back where you got it. That way you won't lose any ground with a filter cleaning.
I have a link in my signature area to a thread about fish-in cycling where you can get more information.

 

[Bill F]

Welcome to our forum Bill F.
I am afraid that you have fallen into a trap that many new fish keepers fall into. You have had fish in a tank almost since it was first set up. That means that you have yet to develop any biological filtration to speak of. All fish produce ammonia mainly from their gills but also as a component of their liquid wastes and from the decay of their solid wastes. Ammonia is toxic in concentrations as low as 0.25 ppm. A functional biological filter can remove the ammonia by converting it into nitrites and further converting the nitrites into nitrates. Nitrates are fairly safe for your fish but ammonia and nitrites are toxic at very low levels.
If your local fish shop is admitting that you have high ammonia levels, they are sky high. A fish shop will often minimize the negative impact of ammonia and will never tell you its source because neither piece of information is in their best interests. No new fish until you get the filter in your tank cycled, meaning until the ammonia and nitrites stay at zero without the need for a water change. If you are going to continue to keep fish in a new tank without a functional biological filter you need to get a liquid type test kit, not rely on the fish shop. What you will do then is change so much water, every day if it is needed, to keep the ammonia and nitrites both at less than 0.25 ppm at all times. With no numbers to go by, I would advise a 90% or larger water change today, with proper use of dechlorinator, and get that test kit ASAP.
Whatever you do, don't toss any part of your filter . A typical filter manufacturer will tell you to toss some part every 3 or 4 weeks but that is completely wrong. The biological filter that you are trying to establish ends up as a colony living in the filter media. If you toss it, you and your fish get to start all over. If a filter needs to be cleaned, take some of that water you are removing every day and use it to rinse out the filter media then put the media right back where you got it. That way you won't lose any ground with a filter cleaning.
I have a link in my signature area to a thread about fish-in cycling where you can get more information.

 

[Bill F]

Hi thank you for your quick response,I bought a test kit but unfortunately at this time of the night all I was able to get were the jungle test strips. Heard good and bad, read the reviews and 4 to 5 stars if that means anything by consumers. My ph was between 6.8-7.2, which is good according to my kit. Alkalinty was low at 80 ppm, kit says I want to be between 120 and 300 ppm. Hardness was soft at 75 ppm, kit say good between 50-150 ppm. Nitrte was at the stress level at between 1.0 and 3.0 ppm. The final nitrate was good between 0 and 20 ppm. Ammonia I wasn't really sure, I am going to take the kit back and exchange it because colors on box and colors on bottle are not the same, same shade is two different results, according to the box its in the safe zone at .25 ppm, and same color on bottle says stress at .5 ppm, perhaps one is faded,the box seems to have the darker shades. The store also Jungle had ammonia clear but I did not purchase it, wanted to find out more about it first, whats your take on it? At the present I have zeolite crystals in my filter canister in the last postiton before the water goes back into the tank to help with the ammonia issues.

 

[OldMan47]

Test strips are generally less than adequate, regardless of the manufacturer. By my way of thinking, you are in an unmonitored cycle. I know that sounds way harsh but it is how I see it, I never did excel at diplomacy. Please do a huge water change on your tank, by that I mean at least 90% using good water treatments to remove chlorine. If you do that, your fish should be OK for a day or two and that should give you the chance to find a liquid type test system. I use the Master test kit from API but brand names really do not matter. What does matter is your ability to measure at least ammonia and nitrites reliably. If you have low hardness, soft water, that will add to your issues but we can help you get through that part once you know your other water parameters. Mollies really do far better with high mineral content in their water, not low values that are assumed to be good by most water test companies for generic tropical fish. Mollies are a case unto themselves in terms of water chemistry. They do far better with hard water that has a high mineral content. Typically tap water that suits them will have a pH of at least 7.6.
Things like the Jungle ammonia clear may work for a day or two but are not a long term solution to ammonia and the nitrogen cycle. For that you will need to develop that cycled filter. If you choose to use the chemical answer, I cannot fault your motives but I also cannot suggest that you are doing the right thing. The right thing to do for any ammonia excursion is a huge water change with proper dechlorinator use. Yep, that may mean a 90% daily water change if you have a heavy stocking level with an uncycled filter. You may well find yourself in that mess if you followed a typical fish shop's recommendations. No amount of artificial chemical neutralizer will ever substitute for the huge water change, not even for one of them.