Is My Blue Ram Male Or Female ?

[Hamsta]

hello,im new to this forum, this being my first post. but i would like to start of the bat with a question that can hopefully be answered, you see, at home i have a 143 litre tropical fishtank, and in it a variety of fish, including 2 Blue Rams. the blue rams i have been wanting to breed, but the problem is i do not know if the 2 i have are male/female or not, here in new zealand were i live, my lfs only sell ''blue rams'' and bolivian rams, i prefer the blue rams, and are wanting to breed them. i have two rams at home, both different in looks, both ''blue rams'' but they do not seem to get along, iv researched about and supposibly they fight when there both males, i bought a male ram from one lfs, and a female from another, (i asked for a male and female )so hoppefully they are not both males, iv provided some pictures of the fish in question
is this fish male or female ??? i was told it was a female from my lfs, the guy there said females do not always have pink bellys yadda yadda yadda, so could someone help me out?the other fih that is hoppefully male is younger, and has a much more pointed ''end of his top fin'' and his ''end'' tail is very V like, if you know what i mean . so if anyone can help me out it would be much appreciated, sorry for this post being really long.

thanks alot for reading, pictures to follow of the ram in qustion....

 

[Hamsta]

by the way, the 2 rams get along Great MOST of the time. they usually swim around each other, the one that is meant to be a female is older than the other one, and She scares away any other fish that come near her and the male, they usually swim quite close to each other, but then sometimes the 'female' will chase the male, not doing any harm, and then she will stop and 'lean' towards him. is this some sort of breeding behaviour ? i hope so..

 

[Gilli]

Looks like a male to me - although the photos are not very clear. When they lean towards each other its usually a display and a pre-fight posture.

Blue rams are hard to sex but here are a few pointers

1) the females have a more of a rounded tail and the male has a 'V' shape with 'sharp' corners on them
2) the males have a elongated 2nd ray in the dorsal fin
3) the males dorasl and anal fins at the back are more pointed then the females
4) the females have more red on their belly compared to the males
5) the obvious, the females are thicker/rounder when mature and able to mate

 

[sXeLifer]

When they lean like this it means they're testing each other and are up for a fight

 

[Hamsta]

alright, thanks for replying guys. thats prity dissapointing, however ill keep trying, using all my money
thanks again.

ill try to get a picture of both of them together, the other fish looks alot different

 

[Hamsta]

alright, heres the other fish, which was meant to be the male it was really tough to get a good picture, and these arnt great. you can however kinda see that his tail is a V shape, and his top fin ends in a long point.. do you guys reckon the younger one is a male ? and the older one looks a lot different, e.g has a rounded end of its top tail, and a rounded end fin , maby its female?

lol im just wanting them to be male and female i hope so !


heres the pics

i know, there prity bad