Is Fish Keeping Wrong?

[Lord Spooky]

I know it sound dumb but i was thinking to myself how do the fish feel? I mean they live in smaller area and are basically in a cell that they cant get out of. They can see through the glass and are probably extremely confused at what they see. i dunno its just me being weird or what.

 

[demonmagus]

probably not the best place to ask

anyway yes I suppose it is *technically*, but with that mindset everything is cruel

 

[GoldfishAttentionSpan]

they live in smaller area and are basically in a cell that they cant get out of. They can see through the glass and are probably extremely confused at what they see. i dunno its just me being weird or what.

On the other hand, they get food on a regular basis, thier environment is kept considerably clean, they are protected from predators, they are given medicine if they get sick, they are seperated from other fish when they are injured, and in general I do what I can to make thier lives happy. (Speaking for my fish- I only wish that all fish were treated as I described...)

Which is the better/worse fate (captivity versus wild, I would guess) is up to you to decide, I would say.

 

[Bluejay]

I think it depends on the fish, there are lots of tropical and marine fish which even in the wild would never explore much further than the size of decent tank. As well as this in a tank they are (hopefully) provided excellent conditions, a constant suppy of food and are not under any stress from predators etc

 

[montyII]

I figure that if fish are captive bred, have the appropriate water conditions, amount of space and tank-mates then it's not cruel. I think if a fish has never known anything other than a tank environment it would feel right at home in the right tank.

I'm not sure I agree with capturing wild fish to keep in tanks, though. After doing some snorkelling on the great barrier reef recently I did think how sad it would be for some of the amazing fish I saw (including 4 different species of anemone fish in a patch of reef as big as your loungeroom!), to be captured, transported in god-knows what conditions and plopped in a tank.

But that's just my opinion.

P.S: Good point about the food supply and safety from predators.

 

[modaz]

exactly , theres no harm to the fish and most dont even survive as long in the wild, tBH i would rather be a guppy in a tank that has constant food, clean water, etc and live longer than be a tuna or sardine being chased around the ocean by dolphins and such. its a case of what you dont know you dont miss. being wild caught is a different matter but providing the environment that they need can only be good for them really. maybe im wrong, trying to put myself in a fishes body really and thinking about what i'd prefer..................yep i would rather be a captive bred fry and not know any difference

 

[Darkstar]

On the other hand, they get food on a regular basis, thier environment is kept considerably clean, they are protected from predators, they are given medicine if they get sick, they are seperated from other fish when they are injured, and in general I do what I can to make thier lives happy. (Speaking for my fish- I only wish that all fish were treated as I described...)

hmm sounds like jail really then....

 

[Chubbywubs]

I dont think its cruel, providing you look after them well, but if my fish complain ill let you know.

 

[modaz]

hmm sounds like jail really then....
[/quote]
Jail being in jail/prison is nothing like being in a tank, not that ive ever been there the fish can wake up when they want, explore as they please, breed when they want, have a massive glass window to look out of, not cold at night, dont have a conscience to deal with. and dont have some nasty people around them that just thrive on causing grief and making them miserable b/c they hate whats going on with they own life.

 

[Betta5]

They prolly just think they are in a small patch of water, Well atleased they dont have to 'run' from predators all the time maybe they could have a bit of an easy life in an aquarium. Well if i was tiny and was being chased by things 10 times (and bigger) than me i would defo want to go to a peaceful safe place, even if it were 'small'. JMO

 

[Viettxboii]

Its like how it is with the environment, seeing as were destroying it to make new homes , and buildings, all the while killing wildlife , and hte environment alike.
In reality fishkeepers try to attempt to save fish and provide htem with good homes, but then, really when we think about it, have we condemned fishes?
Seeing as how ive heard countless people who work in LFS see hte mortality rate of the amount of fish that come in each day, so how i see it, for every fish we save, at least 10 more die, and really, is that what we want? And don't forget the trauma htee fish are put through when there being imported, which not many surive, then those that do survive breed, and if htey end up with a bad owner, more and more fish get killed unfairly, where inteh environtment they hunt and get hunted, fair play.
One good case is the betta, whom the majority have ot suffer hte small confines of a tiny bowl
Then comes to the point of live plants, with the more light is good. As far as im concerned most people are trying to use brighter LOWER wattage lightbulbs rather then keep upping amount of electricity being used, therefore using more electricy, and creating more carbon emmisions, which will ultimately lead to global warming,destroying more life, and marine fish and corals through el nino.
Its like in the moive The Inconvenient truth where Al Gore weighs Earth on one side and gold on the other, and most people in this day and age, as it wouldd seem choose the gold side, but then really, whatss the use of gold if everythings dead, and earth turns uninhabitable, and is left a barren dessert?
Really no matter what governments try to do to help the environment, they wont do anything seriously, because in they dont want to risk theireconomy on that, and not willing to take the cut on that .
I gtg for now ill complete this when i get home.

Why Do They Do It?​

Because they can! Because they make a lot of money doing it. Because people buy them.​

I, personally, know two people who bought Bettas because they saw the cute bowls online and thought they'd be cool as decorative items. The fish came later, from-- of course-- a pet store-- right after the cute bowls arrived! One of these people ditched the bowl after deciding to keep her three Bettas in Brandy Snifters and a tall, cylindrical vase that's only about 2" in diameter, if that!​

Somebody is marketing them as pets to keep in vases! We see pictures of those set-ups everywhere!​

The average person who buys his/her first Betta is looking for something more exotic than a goldfish, but just as pretty and easy to keep, for the office, kitchen, or kid's bedroom.​

Aquarium setups are expen$ive. "Betta Bowls" are not.​

Betta Displays in many pet stores are set up on endcaps, with the poor fishies in small containers, ready to go. Bowls, food, and Betta supplies are right there. They fit on the endcap. Everything is small, and cheap (except, perhaps, for the bottled water). They're marketed to be an "impulse buy," which makes an inexpensive, convenient-to-find set-up part of rationalising the impulse. "I got everything I need for this fish for only $20, including the fish, and the food will last a year!"​

Bettas in pet stores are cheap; it follows to reason that it should be inexpensive to keep one. After all, it's only one pretty fish that lives alone, right?​

Most of the salespeople in pet stores don't know anything beyond what's printed on the packaging.​

The packaging says "Betta Bowl" or something similar. Smart salespeople often try to get the customer to go for a bigger tank; but folks don't readily part with a lot of cash for impulse-buys.​

Impulse-Buys make money for all stores, even pet stores! In some cases, if the fish is lucky and gets owners that care for it, they ultimately do research and wind up buying a bigger tank.​

If the fish isn't lucky, and its owners really are buying a decorative item, when it dies, they just buy a new fish. Cheap fish don't last that long, right?​

Regardless of the scenario, pet stores still have sold those tiny bowls.​

Why do we create a demand that takes Bettas out of their natural environment, subjects them to the stress of handling, shipping, unnatural climate and food, and find it acceptable because we give them bigger, better living conditions than "Betta-Bowls" provide? ​

​

I'm Guilty, Too! ​

​

And then we breed fish that if htey manage to escape into the wild population, will cripple that population , as colors will attract predators, albeit, they may be more hardy(not sure in the wild though) theyre more colorful.
Some fish are bred to gain long/big tails that weigh them down and make it ahrder to swim, such as bettas and guppies for example.
and due to supply and demand people buy bettas right?
therefore as long as there is a demand for a pretty ornamental fish, which supposedly require nothing but a few feedings a week,
and clean water, people will buy into them assuming their easy to care for and and an otherwise cheap pet, to get their kids to shut up right?
Sorry to be rude at society, but the majority of people have lost their sense of respect ot the environment, like how we always try to throw thigns at seagulls, or poke at rodents we see, or light bugs on fire etc etc, or in bettas cases, keeping them in miniscule bowls or fighting them. Then theres the fact that were destroying our own planet, and say "let the future deal with it" what if its too late by then because at this point , pollution is skyrocketing and perhaps by then, by the time i may have kdis of my own(AS IF HAHAH i cant even get a girlfriend, and surprisingly my 7 year old brother has had a few, kids these days , that proves how whacked up society is)
So really as Myrrh said above about impulsive buys, thats what slap those bettas into those deplorable conditions,
So what do you think guys do i get an "A" on my rant? HAHA

O and i more thing. I agree with everything you said except for the part you say "what if its too late" I think its already to late we royally F**ked up our planet. A few people are trying to fix it while a few million still destroy it.

This was taken off a post in the betta forums a few days ago
LordSpooky is right, while few work hard to do their part and reduce carbon emmision and save electricy and use energy efficient lights eetc etc, others use more and more, and are overkill on electricity, and fossil fuels wont last forever either.... but by the time we run out, the situation maybe one that will leave earth uninhabitable, and when that comes, what "fish is there left to keep"
Didnt mean to sound rude, ive got lots more then this came form but gotta get ready for summer school.

 

[-germ-]

I think if you base it on an individual level; ie; per fish; then there is no way to know. Each fish would live an individual life in which nothing would be the same and or predictable by us.
It boils down to the argument; is it better to live free for a day, or live in captivity for a week.
This old-school and extremely naive argument always seems to be used in the name of freedom for animals, but the vast majority of people who use this slogan would themselves choose longterm captivity over short term freedom then death, yet seem to find it easy to apply it to animals whos survival doesn't affect their own life, only their diluted conscience.
In my opinion the strongest biological instincts are those of survival and those of reproduction. As long as an animal is kept in well maintained and suitable conditions, no matter the moral argument, no one can say you are doing the wrong thing.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i don't think keeping fish in itself is wrong, however it's massivley dependant on the requirements of the species and the individual circumstances

 

[JezzaBeadle]

I think it mainly depends on the conditions in which the captive fish are being kept. Of course there are some people who I'd consider keep fish cruelly. Ones that are stuffed into a tiny tank, ones that are kept with unsuitable tankmates and can't escape them, ones where the water quality is so bad it kills them. Of course the list goes on, but I'd like to think this is the minority. In this sort of situation I personally think it would be preferable to be in the wild rather than be in a tank like this. However, if the fish is kept in a nice big tank with tankmates it feels happy with, with good water quality and anything else it needs I don't think it's wrong at all. Like lots of other people have said, the fish would get everything they need and they are protected from predators.

 

[Darkstar]

Jail being in jail/prison is nothing like being in a tank, not that ive ever been there the fish can wake up when they want, explore as they please, breed when they want, have a massive glass window to look out of, not cold at night, dont have a conscience to deal with. and dont have some nasty people around them that just thrive on causing grief and making them miserable b/c they hate whats going on with they own life.

I do love supposed statements of fact followed by 'not that I've ever been there'....genius mate genius! I imagine I'm supposed to take your word for it now am i?....

If you can't see any similarity between a tank and a jail cell then that's simply your inability to understand the concept, not mine. For as many reasons you can argue that they are completely different there are just as many which would indicate there are many similarities...and unless you can give me an answer from your fish (which I'm guessing is fairly likely since you seem to be speaking on behalf of them by some of your comments) then I suggest you live with your opinion instead of trying to change mine as your wasting your time.

The only major different imo, is if you believe fish are intelligent. If you do then I would be inclined to think fish see a tank more as a jail cell than as a beach resort, obviously yours don't though I'm sure. If you think aren't intelligent then the original question doesn't really matter does it?