Is Fish-keeping Cruelty To Fishes?
- Thread starter Confused
- Start date
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
ha ha ha always good to see a mod sitting on the fence
I'm well aware I don't know a hell of a lot about environmental issues, or animal cruelty, that sort of thing. But my sister's
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
Birds are also supposed to be in trees and they are in cages. Horses are supposed to be running the praries but are in fenced areas.
If you buy fish and give them a good home, you are keeping them from going home with some idiot who won't care for them at all.
If you buy fish and give them a good home, you are keeping them from going home with some idiot who won't care for them at all.
Tokis-Phoenix
^_^
The only things i can think that a fish may enjoy more in the wild is the having more space.
However, being domesticated and living in a good and suitable fish tank set up offers many good things that wild cannot enjoy. Things that living in a tank are good for fish are;
a. They get regular meals and good food- living in the wild means the threat of starvation is always a real one.
b. Fish can be treated if they get sick in a tank, while in the wild, desease almost always means certain death.
c. There are no predators- in the wild, a fish can live in fear of being brutally killed everyday of its life.
d. An aquarium habitat is much more stable than a wild one to live in if gone about in the right way- in the wild, the fish will not know if it will make it to next spring- the winter may be harsh or the summers may cause droughts and dry up its habitat etc. In a tank, the habitat is secure and stable all year around.
e. Domesticated fish, like the majority of other domesticated animals, live longer lives in captivity than in the wild- the harsh rigors and stresses of life in the wild for example finishes off most guppys at only 6months old, while in captivity they can live for over 2 years.
Many of the common/popular fish in the hobby are also far removed from their wild relatives as well just like dogs are not wolves, pigs aren't boars, cows aren't wild aurox, tabby cat aren't wildcats etc. Most domesticated animal species would simply not stand a chance in the wild. Others, simple have no place in natural food chains like koi carp or goldfish- these fish were created by people over hundreds of years to live in captivity and are far removed from their carp ancestors for example.
There are of course many fish species that i think should be left in the wild where they are- most of these fish types i disagree with in captivity are ones which grow far too large for the average or even experienced or wealthy fish keeper to cator for (let the red tailed catfish or many of the stergeon species of fish out there), there are also fish which simply cannot thrive in captivity even under experienced care (like the elephant nose fish or sabre tooth tetra).
I think as long as the fish displays natural or normal behavior and thrives in its captive environment and is well and suitably cared for with its needs properly attended to, then there is nothing wrong with keeping it in captivity- if this is so, it will most likely live a far happier, healthy and longer life too .
However, being domesticated and living in a good and suitable fish tank set up offers many good things that wild cannot enjoy. Things that living in a tank are good for fish are;
a. They get regular meals and good food- living in the wild means the threat of starvation is always a real one.
b. Fish can be treated if they get sick in a tank, while in the wild, desease almost always means certain death.
c. There are no predators- in the wild, a fish can live in fear of being brutally killed everyday of its life.
d. An aquarium habitat is much more stable than a wild one to live in if gone about in the right way- in the wild, the fish will not know if it will make it to next spring- the winter may be harsh or the summers may cause droughts and dry up its habitat etc. In a tank, the habitat is secure and stable all year around.
e. Domesticated fish, like the majority of other domesticated animals, live longer lives in captivity than in the wild- the harsh rigors and stresses of life in the wild for example finishes off most guppys at only 6months old, while in captivity they can live for over 2 years.
Many of the common/popular fish in the hobby are also far removed from their wild relatives as well just like dogs are not wolves, pigs aren't boars, cows aren't wild aurox, tabby cat aren't wildcats etc. Most domesticated animal species would simply not stand a chance in the wild. Others, simple have no place in natural food chains like koi carp or goldfish- these fish were created by people over hundreds of years to live in captivity and are far removed from their carp ancestors for example.
There are of course many fish species that i think should be left in the wild where they are- most of these fish types i disagree with in captivity are ones which grow far too large for the average or even experienced or wealthy fish keeper to cator for (let the red tailed catfish or many of the stergeon species of fish out there), there are also fish which simply cannot thrive in captivity even under experienced care (like the elephant nose fish or sabre tooth tetra).
I think as long as the fish displays natural or normal behavior and thrives in its captive environment and is well and suitably cared for with its needs properly attended to, then there is nothing wrong with keeping it in captivity- if this is so, it will most likely live a far happier, healthy and longer life too
.i see alot of hippocrisy in fishkeeping. most people buy wild cought fish who have to endure pretty horrid living conditions on the boat from wherever they came from. we put them in a glass container sealed with silicone. the electric water pumps all emit small ammounts of radiation. the flurescent tubes have a drop or 2 of mercury, and emit radiation as well. the artificial lighting turns on and off instantly, instead of slowly like the sun.
and then most people want all natural fish food, and wont put chemicals in the tank to fix problems like ph or snails and shun other who do so.
to top it off alot of people STILL use live fish to cycle their tanks. they buy hardy fish which can hopefully tough it out through the poisoning that is a first cycle.
and then i occasionally see these odd rules like 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. whats up with that? in the wild its probably 1 inch of fish per 500 gallons of water.
and then most people want all natural fish food, and wont put chemicals in the tank to fix problems like ph or snails and shun other who do so.
to top it off alot of people STILL use live fish to cycle their tanks. they buy hardy fish which can hopefully tough it out through the poisoning that is a first cycle.
and then i occasionally see these odd rules like 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. whats up with that? in the wild its probably 1 inch of fish per 500 gallons of water.
Tokis-Phoenix
^_^
I highly doubt that fish tank lighting emits radiation or mercury.
cane76
Fish Aficionado
is fishkeeping cruel?i say it all depends on the fishkeeper
MoMa
Fish Fanatic
<---left-wing, liberal, ''looney-bin'', vegan here.
take care of your fish.
do research before setting up your tank.
give everybody extra room.
put your all into your fish -- just as you would for a dog or cat.
plant the tank, make it as natural as possible.
after your tank is fully established, invite your opinion-imposing vegan friends over and watch them gawk for hours at your fish.
then remind them it's a ''terrible'' hobby.
take care of your fish.
do research before setting up your tank.
give everybody extra room.
put your all into your fish -- just as you would for a dog or cat.
plant the tank, make it as natural as possible.
after your tank is fully established, invite your opinion-imposing vegan friends over and watch them gawk for hours at your fish.
then remind them it's a ''terrible'' hobby.
Qays
Fish Herder
Radiation is emmitting from all over the place.
§tudz
A True Oddball
On the topic of better lives in captivity, here is something I saw once:
I was at a zoo, I when I was younger, I remember seeing rainbow sharks (I didn't know that was what they were then, but do now) and they were of the 6" you are told they grow to, they were reaching 12" some a little more.
Why was this?
Because a lot of sizes are based on natural settings where the fish dont get the food they need all the time, so they dont grow as big. They dont get to that size as they are normally eaten before then, in the tank the food change is more lateral.
So take 'fishy A' he lives in the wild and 'fishy B' he lives in a tank, they are both the same species.
'fishy A' spends all day hiding and rushing in and out of his hiding spot for food.
Where as 'fishy B' spends all day swimming about and exploring, and eats when his owner open the lid and drops in some food.
5 days later 'fishy A' is eaten by a bigger fish, on the same day 'fishy B' gets a new friend who turns out to be female and they have babies.
which fish was better off? IMO 'fishy B' he had no worries or stresses, well until the female was introduced (/me waits for the female population here to strike back at that comment) and was regularly feed.
At the end of the day most people who preach about stuff like this, cruelty to animals, war, etc etc etc... have no clue about what they are preaching about. They have read a leaflet and been told what to think by some crazed fool, who themselves has not clue.
Stupidy and ignorance breeds between liked minded and impressionable people.
Prove them wrong, my friends think I'm barking mad with all my fish, but hey I enjoy it and so do my fish.
My female likes me too much and would like to eat my hand as she has tried on numerous occastions.
and breathe......
I was at a zoo, I when I was younger, I remember seeing rainbow sharks (I didn't know that was what they were then, but do now) and they were of the 6" you are told they grow to, they were reaching 12" some a little more.
Why was this?
Because a lot of sizes are based on natural settings where the fish dont get the food they need all the time, so they dont grow as big. They dont get to that size as they are normally eaten before then, in the tank the food change is more lateral.
So take 'fishy A' he lives in the wild and 'fishy B' he lives in a tank, they are both the same species.
'fishy A' spends all day hiding and rushing in and out of his hiding spot for food.
Where as 'fishy B' spends all day swimming about and exploring, and eats when his owner open the lid and drops in some food.
5 days later 'fishy A' is eaten by a bigger fish, on the same day 'fishy B' gets a new friend who turns out to be female and they have babies.
which fish was better off? IMO 'fishy B' he had no worries or stresses, well until the female was introduced (/me waits for the female population here to strike back at that comment) and was regularly feed.
At the end of the day most people who preach about stuff like this, cruelty to animals, war, etc etc etc... have no clue about what they are preaching about. They have read a leaflet and been told what to think by some crazed fool, who themselves has not clue.
Stupidy and ignorance breeds between liked minded and impressionable people.
Prove them wrong, my friends think I'm barking mad with all my fish, but hey I enjoy it and so do my fish.
My female likes me too much and would like to eat my hand as she has tried on numerous occastions.
and breathe......
andywg
Bored into leaving
All depends on the individual keeping, just as "dangerous" dogs depend on who brought them up.
Look at reefs. A large number of smaller fish (anemonefish - or clowns, or Amphiprion spp. - are a fairly good example) tend to stay in a very small area of the reef and so will not massively notice the lack of space, but will probably notice the fact that they live to 10 years+ in captivity rather than the expected 5 years in the wild due to predation.
Why do fish have usually such huge spawns? Because most die before reaching adulthood. If you can keep fish in an environment that initiates spawning or reproducation then surely you are keeping them in close enough conditions for them to thrive rather than just survive.
Obviously keeping Ram ventilated sharks in 6 foot tanks is cruel, but most serious aquarists would not dream of doing such a thing.
P - eople
E - ating
T - asty
A - nimals
Look at reefs. A large number of smaller fish (anemonefish - or clowns, or Amphiprion spp. - are a fairly good example) tend to stay in a very small area of the reef and so will not massively notice the lack of space, but will probably notice the fact that they live to 10 years+ in captivity rather than the expected 5 years in the wild due to predation.
Why do fish have usually such huge spawns? Because most die before reaching adulthood. If you can keep fish in an environment that initiates spawning or reproducation then surely you are keeping them in close enough conditions for them to thrive rather than just survive.
Obviously keeping Ram ventilated sharks in 6 foot tanks is cruel, but most serious aquarists would not dream of doing such a thing.
P - eople
E - ating
T - asty
A - nimals
Buddies this is a great showing ... so many replies. Thanks. I have asked my friends to read your messages. I am sure it would compel them into a lot of thinking. I agree that if one takes care of the fishes, then it seems fine.
beany_bot
Fish Crazy
Put it this way, in the wild fish from birth have about a 1/100 chance of survival. they are consantly starving and always hunted by Predators. I know where i would rather be, in a well cared for tank.
Similar threads
Most reactions
-
245 -
215 -
205 -
169 -
166 -
160 -
141 -
133 -
109 -
109 -
109 -
91 -
90 -
87 -
83