Inward Stomach Pn Royal Pleco

[stan1979]

hey folks,
i came home from my girlfriends house late last night and managed to get this picture of my royal pleco, it might not be too clear in the picture but it looked like his stomach had moved inward (similar to plecos that have only just arrived in lfs)had him for nearly two years and never had any problems like. one thing i did notice that it took him two days to eat a good portion of courgette where normally it would only take a day,

any suggestions or am i just being paranoid,
cheers
stan

 

[lilfishie]

could be an internal problem if he is still eating, is he going to the toilet?and does it look normal?any rapid breathing?odd behaviour?tank size and stocking? tank water stats? ammonia?nitite?nitrate?

 

[stan1979]

could be an internal problem if he is still eating, is he going to the toilet?and does it look normal?any rapid breathing?odd behaviour?tank size and stocking? tank water stats? ammonia?nitite?nitrate?

like i said i was home late so wasnt able to check if he has been goin to the toilet, no rapid breeding and the only strange habit was he took longer to eat the courgette, the tank size is a rio 240 and is filtered by a Eheim External Filter Professionel II Special Edition - 2026, havent tested the water in a few days but the last stats were nil for amonia, nitrite, nitrate and the c02 is 30ppm.
the tanked is stocked with 5 congos, 5 black widows, mix of rainbow fish total of five, six dwarf cories, pair of kribs, one angelfish,spotted perch,ropefish, and a l239. the l239 is the lastest addition and has settled in fine, all these fish have lived together with no problems for the last year,

hope i have given enough info,
cheers
stan

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I would say it is either an internal parasite infection (the most likely cause), or an internal bacterial one- i would advise treating for both (not nesarsarily at the same time though depending on whether the meds you go for can be mixed together). You should treat the tank as a whole in case any of the other fish in the tank have got the infection/s.

 

[stan1979]

I would say it is either an internal parasite infection (the most likely cause), or an internal bacterial one- i would advise treating for both (not nesarsarily at the same time though depending on whether the meds you go for can be mixed together). You should treat the tank as a whole in case any of the other fish in the tank have got the infection/s.
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thanks fo the reply people,
can anyone recommend a good treatment for it

 

[Kevstir]

if it's a parasite the flubenol 15 should be able to clear it up , if all the fish have been in a year would there be a chance of this though?? was the l239 add recently??

 

[stan1979]

added the l239 about 2 months ago it was in perfect condition, my lfs agreed to hold it for my for a couple of weeks before i bought it, i remember reading somewhere that feeding it some garlic can help,

not sure how through that is

 

[nmonks]

I think the "internal parasites" explanations are a wee bit premature. To be honest, aquarists cite this so-called explanation for too many other problems. If the fish has lived in your tank for two years without signs of sickness, then internal parasites are very unlikely.

The biggest problem with royal plecs is the wrong diet. People feed them high-protein foods, and these (according to scientists working on them) cause problems with the internal organs. Specifically, accumulations of fat. Royal plecs should be eating almost entirely wood, algae, and vegetables. Meaty foods should be avoided, except perhaps as the odd treat. Certain populations of royal plecs are apparently more sensitive to this that others. Columbian/Venezuelan examples are the hardiest, while Rio Xingu, Tapajos, or Tocantins do not live so long in aquaria unless given good care.

I've kept my royal for something like 12 years, and once in a while her belly sinks in just like yours. Usually this follows on from stress, for example when moving from one aquarium to another. Keeping the right water quality and providing lots of green foods plus plec pellets (Hikari Algae Wafers for example) usually fixes things within 24 hours. Also make sure your catfish has lots of wood. They can subsist for months, perhaps years, on nothing but wood. In the wild this tides them through the dry season when food is scarce.

Cheers, Neale

 

[stan1979]

I think the "internal parasites" explanations are a wee bit premature. To be honest, aquarists cite this so-called explanation for too many other problems. If the fish has lived in your tank for two years without signs of sickness, then internal parasites are very unlikely.

The biggest problem with royal plecs is the wrong diet. People feed them high-protein foods, and these (according to scientists working on them) cause problems with the internal organs. Specifically, accumulations of fat. Royal plecs should be eating almost entirely wood, algae, and vegetables. Meaty foods should be avoided, except perhaps as the odd treat. Certain populations of royal plecs are apparently more sensitive to this that others. Columbian/Venezuelan examples are the hardiest, while Rio Xingu, Tapajos, or Tocantins do not live so long in aquaria unless given good care.

I've kept my royal for something like 12 years, and once in a while her belly sinks in just like yours. Usually this follows on from stress, for example when moving from one aquarium to another. Keeping the right water quality and providing lots of green foods plus plec pellets (Hikari Algae Wafers for example) usually fixes things within 24 hours. Also make sure your catfish has lots of wood. They can subsist for months, perhaps years, on nothing but wood. In the wild this tides them through the dry season when food is scarce.

Cheers, Neale

thanks for your reply neale,
my tank contains five or six differnt pieces of bogwood and the royal lives in a large log and has from day one fed off this log more than any other piece of wood in the tank. i also feed it two leaves of lettuce and two slices of courgette over the course of ten days, the leftovers are removed once the bulk of each piece has been eaten so as not to pollute the water, every second night a couple of plec pellets are placed in the tank,
the rest of the fish are fed a mixture of frozen and flake food and not much makes it to the bottom,

could it possibly be the log has lost its nutrienal value to the royal and needs replacing or should i change the dosage of the veg feeding,

once again thanks for your help

stan

 

[nmonks]

my tank contains five or six differnt pieces of bogwood and the royal lives in a large log and has from day one fed off this log more than any other piece of wood in the tank. i also feed it two leaves of lettuce and two slices of courgette over the course of ten days

Lettuce has virtually no nutritional value at all and is only marginally better than nothing. Courgette is better, but it is still pretty low in nutritional value. You want to vary the diet a bit, and include potato, sweet potato, carrot, broccoli, tinned peas, spinach, etc.

the rest of the fish are fed a mixture of frozen and flake food and not much makes it to the bottom

Indeed. You might try putting the head from a prawn out one night. Royal plecs do seem to enjoy them, and scrape away at the "guts" quite effectively. Not a staple food item, but my specimen does seem to relish them, and she comes out during the day time as soon as she smells one!

could it possibly be the log has lost its nutrienal value to the royal and needs replacing

Unlikely. Panaque actually digest the wood, so provided the wood hasn't rotted away, there is plenty there for them to eat. There's no scientific evidence different types of wood matter much. When kept in labs and subject to experiments, the scientists were giving them North American temperate zone woods -- definitely not what they would eat in the wild! So from the Panaque perspective, wood is wood is wood.

Cheers, Neale

 

[stan1979]

looks like i will have to do some shopping on the way home from work so. i have fed the fish with prawns before but not sure if the royal actually ate any of it,
i find it strange that its only now that it has started to suffer from not having such a varied diet instead of when i first bought it, or is it that its only taking its toll now,

thanks again
stan

 

[nmonks]

looks like i will have to do some shopping on the way home from work so. i have fed the fish with prawns before but not sure if the royal actually ate any of it,

Depends on the fish with the royal plec. Obviously if it's living with a big pufferfish or an oscar, then it isn't going to much of a look-in! Mine co-habits with a variety of tetras and other small fish, and is definitely the boss. She pounces onto the prawn head and the other fish merely hang about snapping at the crumbs.

i find it strange that its only now that it has started to suffer from not having such a varied diet instead of when i first bought it, or is it that its only taking its toll now,

Which is why I don't think parasites are likely. You'd have seen a gradual decline over time. Royal plecs are "grazers" and evolved to eat large amounts of food more or less constantly. When they skip a day or two's feeding, then they seem to go hollow-bellied. Provided the eyes are still bright and sticking out of their sockets, there's nothing to worry about. It's when the eyes are sunken in as well, then you have problems. Newly imported Panaque spp. supposedly carry a Rickettsia-like bacteria that cause emaciation over time. This was a big deal when blue-eye plecs were imported back in 80s, as these fish seemed to be very prone and often died shortly after import. Royal plecs seem not so badly troubled (for whatever reason) and once settled in and feeding strike me as being exceptionally hardy catfish.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Darkstar]

Royal plecs should be eating almost entirely wood, algae, and vegetables. Meaty foods should be avoided, except perhaps as the odd treat.

yep, gut content analysis of wild panaque show the only thing in their stomach is wood.
Experiments with Panaque have shown that when fed only wood they're as healthy and grow as fast as those fed vegetables or commercial foods.

 

[stan1979]

well i threw in a slice of potatoe and some carrot and placed a few tablets in and aound the bogwood last but paid no attention to them, but spent most of the time stuck to the side of the tank where some algae had been, hopefully he will have become interested in the veg while i have been in work,

 

[Darkstar]

well i threw in a slice of potatoe and some carrot and placed a few tablets in and aound the bogwood last but paid no attention to them, but spent most of the time stuck to the side of the tank where some algae had been, hopefully he will have become interested in the veg while i have been in work,

It can take them a while to realise it's there and that it is food, so you may find it'll take a couple more tries for them to figure it out..but keep perservering, they will catch on eventually.