Intestinal parasites

[Beastije]

Hi, so I bought home new fish from the same breeder as always, and finally see the issue with the ember tetras being skinny is from the breeder itself. I didnt quarantine these, I know I should have, but dont have the place. They do not have ich, it has been a week, they are otherwise healthy looking, except the intestinal parasites.

The situation is the same as before, mostly male tetras are skinny with sunken bellies, I counted 4 out of 20 I got.
Based on my past experience, they eat well, they behave normally, no separation from the school, but obviously they are sick.

My previous research showed that treating the fish alone in a different contained may or may not help the fish, but will do nothing to the possible parasite infection in the tank.
There are also two types of medication for worms and I would need to use both, since they target different worm species, and without pathological check or microscope, I cant determine which ones is the fish infected with.

The thing is, these fish are not yet fully colored, so obviously still some stress residue. If I try to net them and move them to other container, it will stress them out even more. I also dont really have a good container I can put them in, my choices are limited and may work for short term, not sure if the month the treatment requires is not a death sentence.

Now I have the options:
not treat them and instead feed them well and see if they get better/die off.
move them to a 40l vase filled with java moss, in which I would need to add an airstone, but would be no filter
move them to a 54l tank with 3 harlequin rasboras with nipped fintails, 2 neolamprologus multifasciatus and a brotia herculea and a clithon, which I would have to remove from this tank before any treatment

 

[Beastije]

Posting some pictures. Two are truly sunken, two are just skinny

 

[Beastije]

And the whole tank, if someone asks. I put the black board to take a picture of the fish, it is see through otherwise. 360l, there is 55 or so embers in there, 20 are week new

 

[Colin_T]

If one fish has worms, they all have worms. Just treat all the tanks at the same time. Start with Levamisole for thread/ round worms and if there's no improvement after a few months, use Praziquantel for flat/ tapeworm.

If you can get Flubendazole, it should do both types of worms but might affect shrimp or snails. Can't remember which.

 

[Essjay]

NT Labs make a flubendazole product and their website states

Warning: This product will kill snails, shrimps and other invertebrates.

 

[Beastije]

Guys neither product is ok for snails, shrimps and even corydoras sometimes. Each carries high risk for one group at least so not really ok to put it in a community tank. Would a targeted bath work?

 

[Naughts]

I doubt a bath would work.
Can you get a small QT/ hospital tank? It would be invaluable. Maybe put the shrimp and snails in there whilst you treat the main tank.
I have done prophylactic worm treatment for all my fish during their month in quarantine, this included corydoras.
Lovely to see a big shoal of embers

 

[Lynnzer]

Yeah, I'd get the shrimp and snails out then go full tank treatment.
I'd also really scream at the supplier shop as well.
Lack of stock care, and lack of customer care are basic failings.

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HAVE YOU VOTED YET
Lights on my tank entry are getting switched off this evening​

 

[GaryE]

Why do you think it's worms?

At most, I would use a prazi treatment for the whole tank. I see no signs of nematodes, but it could be tapeworms.

It could also be a couple of runts/fish with genetic problems, other parasites, Mycobacter, starvation... Parasitic worms are often over diagnosed. The fish with the huge eyes relative to the body are doomed, in my experience, but there are usually a few like that when you breed up a bunch of fish, even with no tapeworms present.

 

[Colin_T]

Paziquantel and Levamisole are both safe for all fish except babies, as long as you don't overdose. And they are less likely to kill everything if you do overdose. And you can overdose slightly and not kill everything. That doesn't happen with most medications.

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Why do you think it's worms?

It could also be a couple of runts/fish with genetic problems, other parasites, Mycobacter, starvation... Parasitic worms are often over diagnosed. The fish with the huge eyes relative to the body are doomed, in my experience, but there are usually a few like that when you breed up a bunch of fish, even with no tapeworms present.

The runts have something stopping them from growing and filling out. The fish are being fed well and aren't dying with Mycobateria symptoms. The first line of treatment is for intestinal worms because worming medications are quite safe and most fish out of Asia have intestinal worms.

 

[GaryE]

It may be a national perspective for me - @Colin_T . Levamisole costs an arm and a leg, and possibly a couple of vertebrae while they're at it in Canada. So I tend not to treat unless I have to - unless I see symptoms of Camallanus. Whenever possible, I try not to buy fish from farms, but that is a luxury position to be in that took me years to create..
We begin with needing to pay for a veterinary visit, after finding a specialized vet who will even talk to a fish hobbyist. From there, it adds up.
I sometimes forget other countries may not regulate drugs as closely.

If you are in a place where you can get it easily - any time you are dealing with farmed fish, have it on hand.

 

[Beastije]

Well i am begining by checking in with my vet if they even sell them. They moved them out of all shops here recently, all esha products and i haven't tried since.
Will go from there. The option of moving the fan shrimp and all tylomelanii and neritina might be doable for me.

This breeder says all the embers are from his own breeding that is why I purchased from him. Same for the otocinclus. But tbh i have never seen the inside of hiss setup since he just comes out of his house and several of the tetra were skinny and the otocinclus look a bit different than the hoppei he said he is selling, some have the line at the end solid and they shouldn't. They don't stand still for me enough.
I guess next time a different shop, but all others i know have imports ..

 

[Colin_T]

You should be able to buy praziquantel from a pet shop or vet. they use it to treat tapeworm in cats and dogs.

Levamisole can usually be bought from a stock feeder, somewhere that sells stuff for farm animals.