Indian Almond Leaves

[Thedoctor]

Hello,
 
In search of some advice.
 
I'm trying to set up an Amazon Black water inspired theme. This is my tank currently:
 

 
No great but I'm hoping to change that and have LOTS of Bogwood being soaked later on today to put in in the next couple of days.
 
The substrate is Tesco pink bag low dust cat litter and the PH is around about 7.5 I'd estimate (using the colour chart) and, according to the Severn Trent website, my water is soft at 3.0.
 
I currently keep: 
 
1 - Reed fish (Erpetoichthys calabaricus)
7 - Angel fish (No idea what type, they are hobbyest (in)bred ) (May pass them on to another tank)
1 - Fire mouth Cichlid
1 - Red Tailed Black Shark.
2 - Cohcus Blue Tetra (Boehlkea fredcochui) (Had 7 but had a heater malfunction - Aim to make a fairly large shoal of these)
1 - Bristlenose tetra
1 - Upside down cat fish
 
I also have a few Kuhli loach, (I had 12 but with their nature I only see 2 max at a time) and a few misc tetras that will be going soon.
 
I aim to add:
 
2 - Ram Cichlids
1 - Upside down catfish
10 - Blue Tetra
 
Maybe some Rummy Nose Tetra
 
Now you know my tank, the question is about the Indian Almond leaves. I want to litter the floor with them, but from a google search I'm getting varying answers, some suggest too many leaves will barely touch the ph, some say it will vastly reduce the ph, others say it will turn the water too acidic.
 
When I say leaf litter, I mean -
 
 
 

 
But on a 260 ltr / 4ft scale.
 
I will be using - 
 
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380206534729?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 
*MODS - I'm sorry if links are not allowed, please alert me and I will remove this or similarly, remove the link yourself rather than deleting the thread.
 
I will be using the above and intend (without having seen the size) to use the whole bag at a single time.
 
Basically, what will the effects be on the tank? Will it harm the fish? How can I counteract any shifts the leaves cause in order to ensure I don't kill the fish?
 
Thank you in advance for any and all help.
 

 

[Mamashack]

I use IAL in my betta tank but not on the scale you are suggesting so I can't say how much it would affect your water. I use ½ a leaf a week in my 30L tank and it does turn the water brown and lowers my tap water pH from 7.8 to 7.2. Personally I don't like the idea of messing with chemical pH adjusters as from what I've seen on here even the experts find it difficult to get the right balance.
Hope someone else can suggest a solution and good luck with the tank!

 

[snazy]

The tannins from almond leaves or similar stuff can only have effect if your water is soft to start with, particularly if you have low Kh.
However, to achieve soft water tank one either needs RO, or soft tap water.  That's the "real" way to have a soft water tank.
Almond leaves, alder cones can be used for other benefits, like darker water, their antibacterial properties, etc. In my hard water they don't have any effect on neither parameters and the Ph does not move one bit.
 
The problem I see in your tank is the cat litter. This stuff raises the KH and Gh a lot, so it's counterproductive if you want to actually lower the Ph.

 

[Thedoctor]

I don't WANT to lower the Ph, I just want leaf litter, I'm just worried about the affect it may have on the fish.
 
Assuming my Cat litter raises the ph, am I safe to assume that it will balance the tank should I throw in around 100 leaves?

 

[snazy]

The cat litter may not raise or change the Ph, but it will raise the hardness of the water.  Ph is not an indicator of whether the water is soft or hard, it all depends on the Kh, GH and TDS. However, the effect on the water from cat litter is constant and takes months, so although it may not have done much now, in time it will.
 
The almond leaves have some softening effect but as long as the Kh is enough to buffer the water, they won't change the Ph one bit.
They do have other positive effects , so I don't see a problem using them, but that all depends on the fish themselves and whether they'd appreciate such an enviroment. Also, almond leaves fall apart quite fast so you may need to change the leaves every 3-4 week, even less. Mine made a mess out of the tank once they started falling apart so now I am trying oak leaves instead. I thin European beach tree leaves take a lot longer to fall apart.

 

[Thedoctor]

The cat litter may not raise or change the Ph, but it will raise the hardness of the water.  Ph is not an indicator of whether the water is soft or hard, it all depends on the Kh, GH and TDS. However, the effect on the water from cat litter is constant and takes months, so although it may not have done much now, in time it will.
 
The almond leaves have some softening effect but as long as the Kh is enough to buffer the water, they won't change the Ph one bit.
They do have other positive effects , so I don't see a problem using them, but that all depends on the fish themselves and whether they'd appreciate such an enviroment. Also, almond leaves fall apart quite fast so you may need to change the leaves every 3-4 week, even less. Mine made a mess out of the tank once they started falling apart so now I am trying oak leaves instead. I thin European beach tree leaves take a lot longer to fall apart.

 
 
I have looked into Beech and Oak leaves, they do sound better for what I want than Indian Almond leaves. Have you collected your own or do you have a source for them? I can't find anywhere to purchase them from.

 

[snazy]

I haven't collected any yet. I got my oak leaves from someone else. The almond leaves I ordered from e-bay but they aren't cost effective if you want to have a leaf litter substrate.
I did find white oak nearby but I have to wait till autumn for the leaves to fall so I can collect some. Surely you'll find somewhere if you drive around a bit. Just don't collect "black oak" as they are toxic.

 

[Thedoctor]

Thanks.
 
Back to the cat litter substrate. Is it recommended I get rid of it?

 

[DrRob]

Give me until the end of the day and I'll check the hardness in my cat litter tank. In theory it should be around 5kH and gH. It's been set up for a while and is using pretty soft water (I have an RO source) going in, so it should show nicely what it does. I'd not really thought to hard about the hardness aspect as it's essentially a plant growing on tank (although it has loads of ellioti eating the plants at the moment).
 
By the way, that tank is crying out for some apistos and that is a Pterophyllum Scalare, the standard hobby angelfish but the colouration looks wild type.