Indentifying and fighting algae

[Era101]

Based on my own experience I am backing the light, and with your high light requirements you may have to lose the anubias. I have dealt with BBA in 3 tanks where it was only on the anubias. The first I used frogbit which you can see in my signature. The right side of that tank really is very much darker than the left. I had to use a filter on the camera lens for that pic because photoshop could not cope with such a big difference and it was the only way to get a well exposed photo of the whole tank. With the exception of feeding time I always have more fish in the dark half of the tank - their choice. In the other 2 tanks I installed a dimmer and run the lights at 50% intensity. Neither tank has particularly bright lights. 2 of these tanks are on pure RO with only minimal micros.

Just FWIW (what follows is my opinion and I am not telling you what do do)
There is a difference between planted tanks and fish tanks which have plants. The difference is the focus. Those with planted tanks only keep fish to show off their underwater gardens and the well being of the plants is the most important consideration. This may compromise the well being of fish and is the reason I stay away from planted forums. My tanks are all fish tanks with plants for the benefit of my fish. If a plant fails to thrive in ideal conditions for my fish I throw it out and try something that does. One of my tanks has loads of red plants that are almost all green, I'm ok with this because it still looks good and the fish are thriving. I am also not prepared to turn up the lighting because these are all blackwater fish. Once you start injecting CO2, increasing light and adding macro nutrients you are moving into the planted tank realm.

Also FWIW (I spent many years keeping high tech planted tanks) red plants need iron to bring out the red. BBA loves iron.

Well if the anubias aren't right for this tank I do have another tank where I could move them to. The other tank was made with low light in mind so that would work. It's shame though, the anubias I have in the high light tank are growing about 2 new leaves per week. The ones in the low tank have 1 leaf in 3 weeks. I might try to place the anubias in the shade of the frogbit first to see if that would solve anything. Otherwise I'll just move them, still need to add some finishing touches to the low light tank anyhow.

The fish don't really prefer the shade, they kind of move throughout the tank. I did read that one of the signs of too intense of a light for gouramies was them staying at the bottom but that hasn't been the case either. They do linger at the bottom from time to time to nibble at the plants there or when there is some aggresion among them but I don't know if that is unnatural behaviour?

I have heard that before from some friends. The focus either needs to be on the plants or on the fish, otherwise the other side could suffer. This might sound incredible naive as it comes from someone so new to the hobby but I'd like to go for the balancing act. A good looking, well maintained underwater garden that allows both the fish and the plants to thrive. I think it should be possible if I pick the right plants and fish, or at least ones that have similar needs. I know that I messed up on that one in the tank I currently have.

Well I think iron is included in the nutrient set I bought. It contains 4 bottles but it didn't show every single ingredient on the shop page. This set came recommended by friend so I wanted to give it try.

 

[Era101]

I would never put excel in a tank with plants or live animals. Its poison. One of the active ingedients in it is used for sterilizing medical equipment and embalming.
Tom Barr says the two leading causes of any algae in a tank are Co2 ,too much or inconsistent levels and ammonia.
An anubius has minimal use for Co2 As its a low light slow grower.
unless one has lots of hard to grow plants with red in them or hard to grow carpeting plants that require high intensity light and loads of nutrients then you most likely have too much free co2 in tank that isnt being used by plants so instead is being used to grow algae. Either add lots more plants and increase nutrients, tom barr also found that algae was due to under fertilization more than over fertilization as when plants dont have the nutrients they need they dont grow and algae takes hold as algae doesnt need much to grow. Where as when all nutrients a plant need are in excess the plants use what they need and store the rest and algae cant keep up because the plants are growing so fast. Without all the nutrients a plant needs to grow including co2 those excess nutrients go to algae as plants cant utilize them. Algae is always a sign of an imbalance between nutrients and light. In this case id say too much CO2. Decrease CO2 and light or increase light and comprehensive nutrients to balance out use of CO2.
I stopped using CO2 it was more trouble than its worth, one can get insane growth with CO2 but with insane growth comes the need for insane fertilization and light to keep up. Good luck.

Good news on that one I guess, not a single shop, storefront or online, has excel on stock. So that's not in the cards. Have you had some experience the hydrogen peroxide method perhaps?

My tank is fully cycled so there isn't any ammonia left in the tank, still doing weekly test to keep that verified. Co2 I only started on Monday and I already had the algae in the tank for a few weeks by that time. Running at 0,5 to 1 bps so I don't think it is a particularly high injection?

I have a fertilizer substrate on the bottom, about 2 or 3 cm thick, with a soil top layer. Under fertilization shouldn't be the problem for the majority of my plants. Although the plants that aren't rooted might be getting less fertilizer. Those are the anubias, a few java ferns and a few buche. Do they need a lot of fertilizer with them being slow growers?

I think high lights, with co2 and ferts might be the way go for me then. I just bought the co2 cannister and equipment as well as the new lights barely a week ago. I just order a bunch more plants as well that need higher lights. I kind of want to exhaust all my options before I have to get rid of any of the equipment that I currently have.

 

[utahfish]

Good news on that one I guess, not a single shop, storefront or online, has excel on stock. So that's not in the cards. Have you had some experience the hydrogen peroxide method perhaps?

My tank is fully cycled so there isn't any ammonia left in the tank, still doing weekly test to keep that verified. Co2 I only started on Monday and I already had the algae in the tank for a few weeks by that time. Running at 0,5 to 1 bps so I don't think it is a particularly high injection?

I have a fertilizer substrate on the bottom, about 2 or 3 cm thick, with a soil top layer. Under fertilization shouldn't be the problem for the majority of my plants. Although the plants that aren't rooted might be getting less fertilizer. Those are the anubias, a few java ferns and a few buche. Do they need a lot of fertilizer with them being slow growers?

I think high lights, with co2 and ferts might be the way go for me then. I just bought the co2 cannister and equipment as well as the new lights barely a week ago. I just order a bunch more plants as well that need higher lights. I kind of want to exhaust all my options before I have to get rid of any of the equipment that I currently have.

I wouldnt use hydrogen peroxide or bleach or anything to get rid of algae on plants. Its going to do more harm than good and while will initially kill algae if whats causing the algae in the first place isnt fixed the algae will keep growing back.
Easiest way to get rid of any algae is to starve it. Do a 2 or 3 day black out longer if needed. Turn off lights cover tank with a towel or blanket to keep outside light out, stop co2 stop fertilizing. limit or stop feeding for a few days and the algae will starve and die before the plants do. Then siphon take out as much of the dead algae as you can as its spores will spread if not removed.
Other than that you mentioned you have a fertlized substrate. Depending on what kind it could be leaching nutrients into the water as some will do or if the substrate doesnt have a comprehensive load of nutrients lets say its devoid of boron for example then thats a problem as plants arent getting everything they need algae takes hold.problem could be if you are only relying on substrate fertilization for fertilizer your plants that feed through water column like anubius and ferns arent getting the nutrients they need to grow which would explain why they are covered in algae. Plants feed 2 ways through their roots in the substrate and through their leaves in the water column. Some plants are heavy root feeders while others are heavy shoot (leaf) feeders. Its vital to provide both by having a comprehensive substrate fert and a comprehensive water fert. Plants need at least 17 nutrients to grow miss 1 or not enough of one and algae takes hold. I use seachem flourish as my water fert and seachem root tabs for my substrate fert along with a couple other liquid and root ferts i need in higher quantities for other heavy eaters. I dose liquid ferts every day to keep up with what plants consume and replace root tabs about monthly. All without CO2 because added CO2 means more potential for growth which requires i dose more liquid ferts to keep up with that growth. That means more money for ferts when i can get slower but effective growth for less money on ferts. All Co2 is doing is speeding up the growth potential of the plants and if you dont have the requisite other 16 nutrients in adequate supply to keep up all one is doing is feeding algae.
Its a fine balance. I wouldnt rush out and increase light and nutrients until you figure out whats causing the problem. Lastly test your tap water. Tap water depending where you live can have all sorts of crap in it that plants dont need or use but algae will.

 

[BoomerXIV]

Based on my own experience I am backing the light, and with your high light requirements you may have to lose the anubias. I have dealt with BBA in 3 tanks where it was only on the anubias. The first I used frogbit which you can see in my signature. The right side of that tank really is very much darker than the left. I had to use a filter on the camera lens for that pic because photoshop could not cope with such a big difference and it was the only way to get a well exposed photo of the whole tank. With the exception of feeding time I always have more fish in the dark half of the tank - their choice. In the other 2 tanks I installed a dimmer and run the lights at 50% intensity. Neither tank has particularly bright lights. 2 of these tanks are on pure RO with only minimal micros.

Just FWIW (what follows is my opinion and I am not telling you what do do)
There is a difference between planted tanks and fish tanks which have plants. The difference is the focus. Those with planted tanks only keep fish to show off their underwater gardens and the well being of the plants is the most important consideration. This may compromise the well being of fish and is the reason I stay away from planted forums. My tanks are all fish tanks with plants for the benefit of my fish. If a plant fails to thrive in ideal conditions for my fish I throw it out and try something that does. One of my tanks has loads of red plants that are almost all green, I'm ok with this because it still looks good and the fish are thriving. I am also not prepared to turn up the lighting because these are all blackwater fish. Once you start injecting CO2, increasing light and adding macro nutrients you are moving into the planted tank realm.

Also FWIW (I spent many years keeping high tech planted tanks) red plants need iron to bring out the red. BBA loves iron.

Thanks man this really give me a new perspective about planted tank

 

[seangee]

I wouldnt use hydrogen peroxide or bleach or anything to get rid of algae on plants. Its going to do more harm than good and while will initially kill algae if whats causing the algae in the first place isnt fixed the algae will keep growing back.

Since the anubias are removable you can use a very dilute solution of H2O2 outside of the tank with a course cloth or sponge to rub the BBA off. Rinse thoroughly and return to the tank after soaking in clean fresh water. If you have fixed the cause of the problem you probably don't need H2O2 as the BBA will already be dead or dying.

 

[seangee]

Thanks man this really give me a new perspective about planted tank

Low tech does not mean barren. There are plenty of examples of stunning tanks on this site that are low tech.
My tanks are not the best examples but here is my newest tank the day I planted it and 10 weeks later. This tank uses pure RO water and I have only used root tabs and TNC lite (equivalent to Flourish comprehensive supplement) at half the recommended dosage once a week. Being so new means it still has some way to go. The light is an inexpensive Nicrew classic unit running at 50% power for 8 hours a day.

Office Space

Wow! A 6 year old pleco? That’s impressive. America is doomed :rofl:

www.fishforums.net

 

[LostBear]

That is the key. Unless you identify and fix the source you will have this problem forever. Fix it and it goes away by itself - although you may want to clean or cut away the worst affected leaves.
I would not use Flourish excel or similar. It is not liquid CO2. It is gluteraldehyde which is a powerful disinfectant and poison. The recommended dosages are carefully calculated not to kill your fish too quickly. I would not use this in a tank containing livestock.

The anubias seem to be the worst affected. These are slow growing plants that do not appreciate too much light. Increasing flow won't help so best to reduce this to a level that does not cause stress for your gouramis. You don't mention other fish - but otos and gouramis are forest fish and don't like bright light - most tropical fish don't. IMO increasing the lighting is the wrong way to go.

The recommended dosages are carefully calculated not to kill your fish too quickly.

That is the most chilling thing I have ever read on here . . . . . . .

 

[Era101]

@utahfish @seangee

Sorry for disappearing on you, I kind of wanted to do something instead of constantly asking advise but not following through.

Ended up rescaping and adding an f ton of new healthy plants. Changed to RO water and stabilised my co2 output at 1 bps. Apparently did have a flow and water circulation problem. So I changed to a cannister filter and lily pipes, together with the fan I managed to fix that problem. Started adding seachem equilibrium to get the PH, KH and GH stable because of the RO water. Lastly, added micro, macro and k+ liquid ferts and dialed back lighting to 6 hours a day, 3 hours on ,1 hour off, 3 hours on.

The algae started dying within a few days and added an army of shrimp to get rid of the leftover algae. I know I might have gone overboard with everything but I figured if I have to make changes to get rid of the algae then I might as well go all in.

Waiting on the crypts in the small tank to really grow big, want to add a weeping moss carpet after that.

 

[utahfish]

@utahfish @seangee

Sorry for disappearing on you, I kind of wanted to do something instead of constantly asking advise but not following through.

Ended up rescaping and adding an f ton of new healthy plants. Changed to RO water and stabilised my co2 output at 1 bps. Apparently did have a flow and water circulation problem. So I changed to a cannister filter and lily pipes, together with the fan I managed to fix that problem. Started adding seachem equilibrium to get the PH, KH and GH stable because of the RO water. Lastly, added micro, macro and k+ liquid ferts and dialed back lighting to 6 hours a day, 3 hours on ,1 hour off, 3 hours on.

The algae started dying within a few days and added an army of shrimp to get rid of the leftover algae. I know I might have gone overboard with everything but I figured if I have to make changes to get rid of the algae then I might as well go all in.

Waiting on the crypts in the small tank to really grow big, want to add a weeping moss carpet after that.

@utahfish @seangee

Sorry for disappearing on you, I kind of wanted to do something instead of constantly asking advise but not following through.

Ended up rescaping and adding an f ton of new healthy plants. Changed to RO water and stabilised my co2 output at 1 bps. Apparently did have a flow and water circulation problem. So I changed to a cannister filter and lily pipes, together with the fan I managed to fix that problem. Started adding seachem equilibrium to get the PH, KH and GH stable because of the RO water. Lastly, added micro, macro and k+ liquid ferts and dialed back lighting to 6 hours a day, 3 hours on ,1 hour off, 3 hours on.

The algae started dying within a few days and added an army of shrimp to get rid of the leftover algae. I know I might have gone overboard with everything but I figured if I have to make changes to get rid of the algae then I might as well go all in.

Waiting on the crypts in the small tank to really grow big, want to add a weeping moss carpet after that.

Sounds awesome. I hope it works out for you sounds like you are on top of it. Keep up with your weekly water changes and you should be golden