Im Thinking About Going Down The C02 Route

[curlyriff]

Hey can anyone help me with my tank set-up I have just been reading though the Parc Info on CO2 and want to set one up to improve my plants. I was looking at getting all the kit off ebay as it seems cheaper than a system.

Now my tank is medium planted going to be heavily planted over the next few weeks with only small floor space etc. I am currently dosing TPN & TPN+ but I am needing about 50ml of TPN & 25ml of TPN+ per week I think based on what I have been advised with my plants and tank size. Is there a cheaper way to dose all this as the TPN is costing me £13 every 10 weeks and the TPN+ £16.50 every 20 weeks. How do dry ferts work. When I mix them do I get more for my money and how long do they last till they need to be used.

For CO2 I have been told that somewhere around the 25ml/g would be a good starting point but I don't know what that measures or how you set up to make it give the amount. What I read in parc told me what I need and am going for 2kg canister (unless you can get bigger). A C02 Reactor with solenoid, bubble counter, check valv and need valve but dont know what to go for the 2nd one in parc looks OK for £35.50 an external reactor, glass ceramic diffuser and drop checker with all the hosing I need.

Now does what I have been told above and what I am dosing sound about right. My lighting is 2No. 10,000k T8, 1No. Grolight T8 and 1No. Moonlight T8 with a photo peroid where The 1No. Grolight & Moonlight are on 12 hours and the 2No. 10,000k's are on for 8 hours a day total.

All my plants are pretty much low to medium light and seem to be doing OK but growing a little slow and they are not keeping there red colours at there best which I assume is CO2 issues. I did for a while dose Excel but obviously this was expensive at £13 a week or so for the amount required.

I have no real algea problem with only minor amounts on some decor (Most came with the tank when brought 2nd hand).

Any help or input would be great.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[Piti]

Red plants with some exceptions gennerally need lots of light and some iron if I'm not mistaken. Also thick stemmed plants like Iron. (hate to make you dish out another £20) Another thing I heard which may make you more confident is usually an aquarium has enough light, nutrients, but are lacking on the fuel to the fire (co2) Fire = Oxygen, Fuel, Heat.

 

[curlyriff]

Red plants with some exceptions gennerally need lots of light and some iron if I'm not mistaken. Also thick stemmed plants like Iron. (hate to make you dish out another £20) Another thing I heard which may make you more confident is usually an aquarium has enough light, nutrients, but are lacking on the fuel to the fire (co2) Fire = Oxygen, Fuel, Heat.

Cheers Piti,

Thats helpfull. Sounds like my dosing will probably be enough and lighting.

It looks like it would be around £100 for the CO2 kit which won't be too bad. TPN & TPN+ are just expensive at around £42.50 every 20 weeks. That means I would have an outlay of around £127.50 a year as I can't buy half bottles at the same price.

Anyone know about how long 2kg CO2 will last based on the above?

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[mbsqw1d]

Regarding cheaper diy ferts, members Supercoley1 and mark4785 talked about them exstensively in this thread: www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/343741-cyanobacteria-questions-white-spores/

 

[JenCliBee]

Red plants with some exceptions gennerally need lots of light and some iron if I'm not mistaken. Also thick stemmed plants like Iron. (hate to make you dish out another £20) Another thing I heard which may make you more confident is usually an aquarium has enough light, nutrients, but are lacking on the fuel to the fire (co2) Fire = Oxygen, Fuel, Heat.

Cheers Piti,

Thats helpfull. Sounds like my dosing will probably be enough and lighting.

It looks like it would be around £100 for the CO2 kit which won't be too bad. TPN & TPN+ are just expensive at around £42.50 every 20 weeks. That means I would have an outlay of around £127.50 a year as I can't buy half bottles at the same price.

Anyone know about how long 2kg CO2 will last based on the above?

Kind Regards,

Adam

2KG used to last 2-3 months on an 180 litre tank but this will vary on light and plant mass and i guess to a certain degree the plants planted.

Dry ferts will be brought bulk and made to whichever litreage of water you decide. Obviously the larger amount made will determine how long it will last but buying powders will be a hell of alot cheaper than buying branded products that do exactly the same thing. Just find a TPN+ style recipe and mix with RO water and away you go. Best part about making your own is you can up certain elements if you feel your plants arnt getting enough of any one thing, also gives the opportunity to dose micro and macro separately which can be very handy.

Can i ask why you are using TPN and TPN+?, TPN+ is an all in one fert contain micro (trace) and macro (NPK) so eliminates to dose anything else.

 

[curlyriff]

Can i ask why you are using TPN and TPN+?, TPN+ is an all in one fert contain micro (trace) and macro (NPK) so eliminates to dose anything else.

The people who make TPN/+ said you don't really need to dose as much of the TPN+ for total tank amount because they do not require as much of some of the ingreadiants. If you mix the amount of TPN & TPN+ they said I should get a more balanced nutriant supply for the tank.

So if I was to dose 60ml of TPN+ when I don't need all the extra nutriants from it I can mix making it slightly cheaper as TPN is around £13 for 500ml and TPN+ is around £16.50 for 500ml.

It is also recomended by Aquaessentials and Tropica pretty much for this reason when you read through their stuff. It may explain a little better what I mean than how I have put it. Tonight I just can't word what I want to say after a long week at work.

Based on what has been said a 2kg bottle will last me around a month then. PFK had an artical I have just read about CO2 and liquid and it actually worked out cheaper to dose seachem Excel even in a larger 600l tank but obviously this means I have to dose every morning before work to keep it constant and it is easier just to change a CO2 bottle when needed.

I think for my tank they suggest that if I was using a 5kg bottle it should last around 6 months with a solenoid and the initial outlay for the kit was around £150 and a 5kg refill @ £25 every 6 months so for my first year it would be £175 and then £50 per annum.

For Flourish Excel 4l bottle costing around £75 that should last me about 534 days based on 5ml for every 200ltr of water. I would therfore dose around 7.5ml a day. The total cost for that per year is £51 per annum.

Bearing in mind my inital outlay was a further £175 more than the Excel then that works out at around 175 years before the Excel would then cost more?

I think my maths is right there.

In regards to dry ferts I will have a look at the link (thanks for posting it) and see what I can understand.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[JenCliBee]

Can i ask why you are using TPN and TPN+?, TPN+ is an all in one fert contain micro (trace) and macro (NPK) so eliminates to dose anything else.

The people who make TPN/+ said you don't really need to dose as much of the TPN+ for total tank amount because they do not require as much of some of the ingreadiants. If you mix the amount of TPN & TPN+ they said I should get a more balanced nutriant supply for the tank.

So if I was to dose 60ml of TPN+ when I don't need all the extra nutriants from it I can mix making it slightly cheaper as TPN is around £13 for 500ml and TPN+ is around £16.50 for 500ml.

It is also recomended by Aquaessentials and Tropica pretty much for this reason when you read through their stuff. It may explain a little better what I mean than how I have put it. Tonight I just can't word what I want to say after a long week at work.

Based on what has been said a 2kg bottle will last me around a month then. PFK had an artical I have just read about CO2 and liquid and it actually worked out cheaper to dose seachem Excel even in a larger 600l tank but obviously this means I have to dose every morning before work to keep it constant and it is easier just to change a CO2 bottle when needed.

I think for my tank they suggest that if I was using a 5kg bottle it should last around 6 months with a solenoid and the initial outlay for the kit was around £150 and a 5kg refill @ £25 every 6 months so for my first year it would be £175 and then £50 per annum.

For Flourish Excel 4l bottle costing around £75 that should last me about 534 days based on 5ml for every 200ltr of water. I would therfore dose around 7.5ml a day. The total cost for that per year is £51 per annum.

Bearing in mind my inital outlay was a further £175 more than the Excel then that works out at around 175 years before the Excel would then cost more?

I think my maths is right there.

In regards to dry ferts I will have a look at the link (thanks for posting it) and see what I can understand.

Kind Regards,

Adam

Now im a little confused lol (easily done )..... the TPN contains trace and no NPK... TPN+ contain trace and NPK.... im 90% sure that plants require more and alot more NPK than they do the trace elements but with your dosing schedule you will be dosing twice as much of the nutrients the plants require less? which doesn't make sense ..... im sure someone would clarify this.

The excel seems a pointless exercise and waste of money while running CO2, excel is just a carbon based formula which is usually a substitute for CO2 but because your using CO2 to me it is not needed. Ive never used excel because of running CO2?, ive herd people use it as spot dosing to kill algae and dose the tanks with an algae outbreak.

The amount of CO2 used will completely depend on lighting and how much the plants require (heavy planted/Co2 hungry plants etc etc), you may find that you don't use alot maybe 1-2 bps you could use 10-15bps that will be determined by CO2 within the tank monitored by a drop checker. I don't think anybody can accurate gauge the CO2 use unless they have the exact same setup with the same level of plants because all of them are factors on CO2 use.

 

[curlyriff]

What you have said may be true I was just going from what I was understanding on the Aquaessentials website and Tropica mainly as they seem to do allot of work with plants. If you look at those layouts on tropica for instance and check what they dose for a medium level set up at around 300ltr or so they say they dose 30-40ml TPN with 15-25ml TPN+

I was just trying to weigh up the cost difference between Excel and CO2. I would not run both at the same time but everyone says how it cost allot for liquid ferts but at the amounts Excel is required at it doesn't seem that bad. I know that you will getter results from proper CO2 though the offset in terms of cost is against the quality of plants I guess.

I understand what you say about not knowing the exact amount of CO2 used or anything I was just trying to guage an estimate based on similar sized tanks that would be grown with low to medium light stem plants.

I am trying to read up at same time but there is allot of info and allot of that conflicts with one another.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[curlyriff]

Hey can I use any Carbon Dioxide Cylinder? I can find ones that seem to be allot bigger than the 2kg or even 5kg for not a bad price?

Kind Regards,

Adam